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Topic: Cubase Parts & JABB

  1. #1

    Cubase Parts & JABB

    My music generally involves a number of repetitive segments, so it really improves my workflow to create a project by moving and copying separate parts (clips) rather than creating a single midi part for a track. Also normally I just set CC1 to 100 at the beginning of a track and use either CC7 or mixer automation for any volume changes.

    The problem in Cubase is that if I start playing after a part boundary, CC1 stays at 0 in JABB, so I get no sound. This happens despite the fact that I've specified Chase Events/Chase Not Limited to Part Boundaries as well as turned off Reset on Stop in the Cubase preferences. So I wind up wasting a lot of time splitting and glueing parts.

    I don't know whether this is a Cubase problem or a JABB problem. However, I strongly suspect it's a JABB problem since I cannot recreate a similar problem with MIDI controllers using Steinberg VSTi. I'm using Cubase 4.2 and JABB (Kontakt2).

  2. #2

    Re: Cubase Parts & JABB

    Hi, Danika

    I don't know why Cubase is interacting with your JABB tracks that way, but I wanted to respond to a couple of things here:

    "...Also normally I just set CC1 to 100 at the beginning of a track and use either CC7 or mixer automation for any volume changes..."

    I wonder why you do that. Do you realize you're wiping out a lot of timbre variation working that way? Since you're already using CC7 and mixer automation, you're spending time on volume variation--So I suggest you spend that time working with CC1, the way the library is designed, and from experimenting on my own I can guarantee you that you'd get more natural sounding results.

    If you had CC1 at a constantly fluctuating volume, which is the way these instruments are intended to be played, when you work with your clips, you wouldn't have this zeroing out problem. Every clip would have some intermediate CC1 value at its beginning.

    "...So I wind up wasting a lot of time splitting and gluing parts..."

    I don't understand how that follows. You have the clips, and you're saying you keep getting a zero value of CC1 at the start of those clips- why aren't you just moving that value back up to where you want it, if you don't want to record CC1 as I described above? There shouldn't be any extra splitting and gluing of parts involved. - ? -

    Randy B.

  3. #3

    Re: Cubase Parts & JABB

    I posted this question because I was hoping for some practical help, not more pompous preaching on the value of the mod wheel. Hijacking CC1 for some proprietary function in clear contradiction to the general midi standard is the height of arrogance. I suppose newbies who don't know any better may get off diddling with the mod wheel. However, for those of us who have built up libraries of midi sequences over the years based on general midi standards JABB's arbitrary insistance on the mod wheel without providing an alternative is just stupid.

    I purchased JABB assuming I could convert my sequences from my hardware synth/sampler modules, primarily my Akai S5000. I suffered through the limitations, no disk streaming and no polyphonic instruments, of the first version of this product (and shook my head in amazement as people on this forum actually tried to argue that these deficiencies were good things).

    I have given up and am loading my old Akai disks of the Peter Seidlacsak Orchestra into Kontakt 3. JABB is worthless.

  4. #4

    Re: Cubase Parts & JABB

    Quote Originally Posted by danika View Post

    I have given up and am loading my old Akai disks of the Peter Seidlacsak Orchestra into Kontakt 3. JABB is worthless.

    The Phrase Modeled Performance Multi (available at the link in my signiture)
    will generate among other contoller data cc1 data from velocity. Should solve your problem.

    Do you think "worthless" might be a little strong?

  5. #5

    Re: Cubase Parts & JABB

    Hi, Danika

    I'm sorry that the time I spent in replying came across as pompous to you. I was only attempting to be informative.

    What newbies are best off doing when using any new program, is to read the manual. Every program and library of sounds has been built with its own logic, and its best to find out what that logic is.

    JABB, GPO and CMB all use CC1 for volume control. That is basic information without which the libraries won't work as an uninformed user intends.

    And JABB with all of its solo instruments, has been programmed for those solo instruments to behave the way their "real world" counterparts behave. A Sax isn't able to play chords, and so in JABB it's also monophonic. If one wants several Sax players in a piece, just like as it is in with a live band, they each need to have their own unique sound and unique line, even when they're playing the same notes. The results are much more like what happens in the real world than if a keyboardist plays one sound polyphonically. To me, there's simple and rather brilliant logic in programming JABB's instruments that way.

    I want you to know I can relate to what you're saying about how the Garritan approach to MIDI makes it more than a simple one step process to play previously recorded MIDI files. I've used MIDI since the 1980's and am quite familiar with its spec and the way it works. I had all the files for a 2 hour stage musical worked up via hardware synths, then I discovered GPO and wanted to upgrade the sound of my tracks.

    Adapting that 2 hours of music took me a full year to adapt to GPO, and the time spent was extremely well spent. I found plugins which would automate the transformation of CC7 data to CC1, but I didn't care for the results. As always when using new MIDI software or hardware, I wanted to adapt my work to the methods of the new sounds. "Plug and play" in the sense of just pumping MIDI data through whatever I choose, without having to adapt it, is I believe an impossible fantasy. One always needs to adapt MIDI data to work the best it can with any given instrument. Velocity response is different, in fact the response to all MIDI data differs - Each instrument and/or program is a unique case. One always needs to massage the data into what works best with a new set of sounds.

    Grabbing programs and running pre-recorded MIDI tracks through them without any special editing can never yield the best results possible. But it's that impatient practice which is the cause, I believe, for the majority of bad reviews posted online about any soft synth you can name. Users have become obsessed with the impossible idea that an instrument is supposed to sound wonderful and exactly what they want with no added effort on their parts.

    It all involves dedication and patience, and in the case of working with JABB and the rest of the Garritan libraries, I can speak for myself in saying that the effort is extremely worth it.

    ---I'm still not understanding why you're "splitting and gluing parts" if you have things set correctly in your DAW. Sounds like you're having MIDI controllers re-set to Zero when you pause or stop. What you describe is something that should never have to be done.

    Best of luck in your endeavors.

    Randy B.

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