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Topic: crash problem

  1. #1

    crash problem

    Since I purchased CMB and GPO, I have been having Sonar 7 crash when I try to play back aoud 16 synth tracks simultaneously. I will get a motor boating sound and it will say the program has to terminate. I know this could be a sonar issue, or something else, but I thought I'd turn here first.

    I have two gigs of ram and a 2.4 quad core processor. I have set my tracks up so that 8 are on one instance and 8 are on the other and freezing once instance at a time helps the problem. I've also played around with the buffer sized in my sound card, but that has not helped.

    The thing that puzzles me the most about the crash is that the cpu is not going high at all. No more than 5-9% on any one core.

    Has anyone else experienced this problem? I know every machine is different, but I did not think 16 tracks was a lot to ask without a crash. By the way - this occurs in both dxi and vst, with the vst being a even more sensitive.

    Any advice would be appreciated.



  2. #2


    That is strange, Mikul. On my machine which has half the horse power of yours I get almost twice as many tracks going before I have to freeze or bounce down before moving on.

    Your post is full of all the things you've already tried, and they would be the things I would suggest if you hadn't already done them.

    I wonder if you're putting each instrument on its own audio channel as well as MIDI track?--Hmm--but that shouldn't really cause anything but a bad situation during mix down. But maybe you're routing the instruments through Knotakt and then Sonar in some off kilter way? hmmm. I don't really know what's going on - but I felt the pain in your post, wanted to say===HEY--hope that gets straightened out!

    Randy B.

  3. #3

    Re: crash problem

    This could be Sonar having a problem with your audio driver. Do you have another driver to try instead to see if it makes any difference?

  4. #4

    Re: crash problem

    Thank you Nickie and Randy. Nickie - no I do not have another driver to try, but I do have other virtaul synths that I can open several instances up on and have no problem.

    I was doing a little more searching on the web and found an interesting possible solution. The writer of this article has the exact same problem as I do (the frequent crashes when recording another track) and he suggested disableing the multicore processing capabilites in Sonar. He concluced that he was not sure if it was a Sonar or a Kontakt 2 issue, but it did work for him. I have not had a chance to try it yet, but I will report back once I do.

    It is actually a review or CMB that has this information. Here is the actual excerpt from the writing:

    "The first thing I did, once I'd decided to go down this route, was bring up SONAR and load up two instances of the KONTAKT 2 Player, each with a multi for different parts of the Marching Band multi. The first instance loaded the woodwinds, saxes, and high brass, and the second instance was used for lower brass, drumlines, and cymbals. There were thirty instrument parts and MIDI channels spread across the two KONTAKT instances. I then created the extra MIDI tracks and assigned track names, MIDI ports, and MIDI channels to correspond with the relevant instrument desks from CMB in the KONTAKT 2 Player. Setting an initial tempo and turning on SONAR's audio metronome, I was ready to begin.
    SONAR 7 has a nice new feature that allows you to run the audio metronome, and playback in general, even if you don't have any data in your project. This is handy for starting an ad libbing-based composition process since you may not want to record the first bits you play prior to getting something to solidify a bit. After awhile, though, I had an idea, so I armed the Flutes track to record the initial melody, and recorded that against the metronome to sketch out a basic melodic idea as a starting point. Next up was recording a Bass Drumline track to get a basic beat down, then some Snare Drumline and Tenor Drumline parts to get the rest of the underlying feel against which the various melody, counterpoint, and harmony parts would play. The idea was to get basic ideas down by adding a track at a time, then refine things as I went along, with the various elements of the composition solidifying over time. Once I got a solid enough idea, I'd probably end up refining individual parts and re-recording the whole thing from scratch since there would necessarily be a lot of excess baggage in the ad libbed parts, especially in the early ones that were added prior to other parts' having solidified.
    Somewhere in the course of adding those first few parts, though, SONAR crashed. After that, it seemed like I'd repeat a cycle of restarting SONAR, recording a part or two successfully, then trying to record another part, with SONAR crashing in the second or third part I tried to record during the session. Given I was looking at eventually recording up to thirty parts, this didn't seem like fun.
    Fortunately, I'd remembered that I'd had some similar experiences in the past with KONTAKT 2-based instruments, and somehow, be it through web research or trial and error, had hit on the idea of turning SONAR's Multiprocessor Engine off (i.e. in the Advanced tab of the Audio Options). I'm happy to report that I didn't have a single SONAR crash after that. Whether this crashing issue is a SONAR issue, a KONTAKT 2 Player issue, somewhere in between the two, or something totally unrelated that just happens to create some nasty coincidence, I can't say. However, it did make the difference between my happily working with lots of CMB tracks and the kind of crashing nastiness I'd encountered earlier."

    My routing and set up is identical and I am curious to see if this helps.

    Here is the link to the whole article if anyone is interested.


  5. #5

    Re: crash problem

    Here is one other post I found. This post is referring to the number of vst's one can plug in in Sonar and here is what was said:

    The poster here is referring to Synth Edit, but the problem and possible solution seems to point in the same direciton. Is anyone else turning off multicore processing?

    "bduffy wrote:
    In fact, I think there are some major problems with Synthedit and modern processors, so I'll bet that's it, not Sonar.

    Just to clear this up because there's starting to be a lot of misinformation about this. For example, The problem phibeck is having has nothing to do with the currently known Synthedit problem (no offence to bduffy, he obviously wasn't sure of the exact nature of the SE problem).

    There aren't major problems with SE and modern processors. The problem is limited to a small number of users and only affects them if they use their host and plug ins in a very specific way. There are also two simple workarounds that overcome the problem.

    The people affected are those who have all of these: a Multicore processor, a host that is Multicore compatible and the need to use more than one instance of the same plug in at the same time. It's only under those conditions that the bug appears.

    There are also two simple workarounds; don't use dual/quad core compatibility modes or rename your plug in dlls (reverb001.dll, reverb002.dll, reverb003.dll etc) and use consecutive ones if you want to use more than one.

    The bug is already known to Jeff (the creator of Synthedit) and will be addressed when v1.1 is released shortly. "

    Here is the link to the whole thing:



  6. #6

    Re: crash problem

    If it is multiprocessor related, then the best thing might be to turn multiprocessor support ON in Sonar and OFF in KP2. That way all your plugins - even those that don't themselves support multiple processors - will benefit from multiple cores without trying to steal CPU recources from each other (when Sonar handles the core scheduling).

  7. #7

    Re: crash problem

    Here are the results:

    Disabling multiprocessor support in Kontakt 2 did nothing - Sonar still crashed - very frequently.

    Disabling multiprocessor support in Sonar so far, has done the trick. I just recorded and played back 16 or so tracks across two instances of Kontakt 2 and did not have one single problem. I worked for about 45 minutes and had no crashes. Prior to that, I couldn't work one minute without a crash.

    Yes - I am a bit bummed that I cannot use all four cores when working with Kontakt , but I can with all other synths (I own) and when working on audio.

    One last question - should I disable multiprocessor support in Kontakt as well, or does it not make a difference if it is already off in sonar?

    I don't know if this is a Sonar or Kontakt issue, but it seems like something that one of the companies would have addressed, unless this is a one-in-a-million occurence and I am the lucky one!

    Anyone else have this problem?



  8. #8

    Re: crash problem

    Hey mikul,

    I'm not sure if it's in the budget or not (I know it isn't for me), but S8 has had a complete rework of the audio engine to optimize it for multiple cores, and K3 is due out soon with engine tweaks too. In a way, you could say this was the companies addressing the problems. The new versions might be playing better together.

  9. #9

    Re: crash problem

    Yes - I probably will eventually upgrade, but I can live with this for now, as it is not getting in the way of my workflow.

    I am just glad I can open several instances of Kontakt, record and not have the anxiety of a crash!

    As usual - thanks for all the help!


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