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Topic: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

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  1. #1

    The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    I recently used the Steinway Piano aswell as -lite and the other versions and noticed that both versions sadly have ruined samples in them.
    Apparently the mic that was used reacts with a high pitch resonance effect on some of the notes. This is such a great piano recording but it doesn't really seem enjoyable with this mic reverb.

    I wonder if I'm missing some kind of update, but I'm using the KP2 version.

    On the "Steinway Piano" the following notes are noticable beeping after 0.3 sec.
    E5
    G6

    Can anybody confirm this?


    Thanks

  2. #2

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky1990 View Post
    I recently used the Steinway Piano aswell as -lite and the other versions and noticed that both versions sadly have ruined samples in them.
    Apparently the mic that was used reacts with a high pitch resonance effect on some of the notes. This is such a great piano recording but it doesn't really seem enjoyable with this mic reverb.

    I wonder if I'm missing some kind of update, but I'm using the KP2 version.

    On the "Steinway Piano" the following notes are noticable beeping after 0.3 sec.
    E5
    G6

    Can anybody confirm this?


    Thanks
    I gave those two notes a listen but I certainly didn't hear anything that I would characterize as "beeping." Odd. Having said that, there are going to be some GPO piano sample changes in the coming update when the library moves to the ARIA player. Will these changes affect what you are hearing? Frankly, I don't know, since it's not clear to me what you might be hearing here.

    Tom

  3. #3

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins View Post
    I gave those two notes a listen but I certainly didn't hear anything that I would characterize as "beeping." Odd. Having said that, there are going to be some GPO piano sample changes in the coming update when the library moves to the ARIA player. Will these changes affect what you are hearing? Frankly, I don't know, since it's not clear to me what you might be hearing here.

    Tom
    Really weird...

    I made a recording of those notes for donwload: http://ifile.it/2b5tjho

    If that sounds different than yours, then I must have some really different library files than yours, but I have the original library files + the update for library to v2 (or something like that) + the KP2 update.


    update: I just had a friend play me on his EWQL Piano, and it does the same thing on E5, just that it is more subtle and a lot more clearly hearable in our GPO Steinway piano. It seems to be at a frequency of 7k. I thought it kind of ruins the sound

  4. #4

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky1990 View Post
    Really weird...

    I made a recording of those notes for donwload: http://ifile.it/2b5tjho
    Used your link but couldn't locate any files to download on the page that was displayed. Where are they?

    BTW, if you also heard the same thing (to a different degree) with another piano then it makes me wonder if you heard both pianos over the same sound system or different systems? Have you tried different speakers/headphones to see if it occurs with all transducers or just a particular pair? It could be a particular resonance around 7khz in the playback system or it could be that you are reacting negatively to a natural overtone characteristic of the piano on those notes. I'm just trying to narrow down the possibilities from your description in the absence of hearing your files.

    Tom

  5. #5

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Hopkins View Post
    Used your link but couldn't locate any files to download on the page that was displayed. Where are they?

    BTW, if you also heard the same thing (to a different degree) with another piano then it makes me wonder if you heard both pianos over the same sound system or different systems? Have you tried different speakers/headphones to see if it occurs with all transducers or just a particular pair? It could be a particular resonance around 7khz in the playback system or it could be that you are reacting negatively to a natural overtone characteristic of the piano on those notes. I'm just trying to narrow down the possibilities from your description in the absence of hearing your files.

    Tom
    I checked the link, it is correct, just press the "request download ticket", the file displayed above should be "weird piano.mp3".


    Yes I confirm that this is a natural resonance at E5, as I said the EWQLS piano has this aswell, but more subtle, in the GPO samples this resonance effect is more to the foreground unfortunately.

    It sounds not so disturbing to listen to when I compress it with the GPO Ambience Reverb though.

  6. #6

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    Hi, Rocky

    I'm glad Tom talked about an emphasized frequency in your playback system, because that's exactly what the issue is.

    I was able to play your MP3 sample - (that's quite a site where you have it--many ads, several pages to wade through etc--I recommend you try www.box.net instead) - and the notes sounded perfectly normal. The speakers I'm listening to in this particular room where I am doesn't boost the same frequencies as the speakers in your room.

    And that's the way it always is. Every playback set up is unique, no two are alike. It's a combination of the way the speakers are built, the quality of the amplifier, the shape and size of the room, and what objects are in that room. That's why people spend so much money to get studio playback systems as "flat" as possible, so that the most true and accurate playback of music and sound can be heard.

    I have no doubt this is what is happening here, since the other piano library also had the same "beeping"---The same pitches are resonating in your room in the same way.

    And now, after hearing your recording, I can tell you there was no "beeping" for me, and that only makes sense.

    Do some online research and you'll find some tips on evening the sound out in your studio room--it may involve some expenditures though.

    Meanwhile, "...It sounds not so disturbing to listen to when I compress it with the GPO Ambience Reverb though..."

    ---A reverb doesn't "compress." Reverberation and Compression are two totally different recording processes. What happened when you used the Ambience was that you smoothed out and slightly muffled the offending frequency.

    The best news is that you can go ahead and use the Steinway for your projects and be confident that nobody else will be hearing the same frequencies exaggerated the way you're hearing them.

    Truly.

    Randy B.

  7. #7

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hi, Rocky

    I'm glad Tom talked about an emphasized frequency in your playback system, because that's exactly what the issue is.

    I was able to play your MP3 sample - (that's quite a site where you have it--many ads, several pages to wade through etc--I recommend you try www.box.net instead) - and the notes sounded perfectly normal. The speakers I'm listening to in this particular room where I am doesn't boost the same frequencies as the speakers in your room.

    And that's the way it always is. Every playback set up is unique, no two are alike. It's a combination of the way the speakers are built, the quality of the amplifier, the shape and size of the room, and what objects are in that room. That's why people spend so much money to get studio playback systems as "flat" as possible, so that the most true and accurate playback of music and sound can be heard.

    I have no doubt this is what is happening here, since the other piano library also had the same "beeping"---The same pitches are resonating in your room in the same way.

    And now, after hearing your recording, I can tell you there was no "beeping" for me, and that only makes sense.

    Do some online research and you'll find some tips on evening the sound out in your studio room--it may involve some expenditures though.

    Meanwhile, "...It sounds not so disturbing to listen to when I compress it with the GPO Ambience Reverb though..."

    ---A reverb doesn't "compress." Reverberation and Compression are two totally different recording processes. What happened when you used the Ambience was that you smoothed out and slightly muffled the offending frequency.

    The best news is that you can go ahead and use the Steinway for your projects and be confident that nobody else will be hearing the same frequencies exaggerated the way you're hearing them.

    Truly.

    Randy B.
    I just saw this thread and was wondering if this is what I'm talking about.
    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...759#post591759

    Also I can affirm you that this resonance frequency at 7khz is there! I've seen it on the Spectrogram. I've heard it on the headphones aswell. My speakers have very clear high frequencies though and i sent the sample to someone else who agrees (he has highdef-headphones and -ears) it sounds a bit off on the highs.

    A reverb doesn't "compress."
    I know it usually doesn't but doesn't GPO-Ambience Reverb have sliders to compress the highs and lows? Also to me even the presets sound like they compress the sound. It's such an excellent enhancing little tool.

    I won't cry over this any longer cause I want to trust in that the piano samples are high quality and I prefer this virtual-piano's overall sound over many others but there's one more thing I was wondering about(still as a noob)...

    I wonder how many articulations the Steinway in GPO has, because to me individually it sounds like the velocity isn't really sensitive enough to a point where the hammer should soften at 3/4? but still sounds like the player is hitting the keys hard just at synth-reduced volume. As I hear it, there are atleast 2 articulations hard and soft, but the soft seems to kicks in at a very low velocity and therefore a lot lowered volume. I could be completly deluding myself tho...but it sounds like this one has a hard hammer in particular? I think I like that. Also I wonder, does the Authorized-Steinway package take more space than the one from inside GPO, is it worth a look?

  8. #8

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    I am positive you're hearing a sympathetic frequency modulation which isn't actually in the samples since over here in my room I get nothing like what you're describing.

    --Oh well. I tried.

    No, the Ambience plugin doesn't do any compressing. The various frequency knobs you're talking about are ways of selecting bands and either emphasizing or de-emphasizing them. Compression is a specific audio tool which squashes the volume range to the degree that you set its controls. What the Ambience plugin does is the same as any Reverb unit--it applies, in varying degrees, simulated room reverberation to a signal.

    Just now I tried to find a recent thread about how many velocity layers the Steinway has--but I couldn't find it. I can't remember what the answer was - maybe something like 7? - You may have better luck finding the thread.

    AND maybe you can kick back and get to making some music with that piano!--hehe.

    Randy B.

  9. #9

    Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    INSTANT UPDATE - adding a new reply rather than ammending my last one.

    Duh me - It suddenly struck me while I was in my studio working at the piano, that you've been talking about the GPO Steinway, and I've been thinking of the authorized Steinway. Just now you asked about how many layers the GPO piano has--the thread I mentioned is about the authorized piano--SORRY about the confusion.

    You asked if the new authorized Steinway takes more room--lol--YEEeeah. The whole library is just for the piano - It's larger than the entire GPO orchestral library! - It's a fully realized, beautifully sampled instrument, top ratings in Keyboard magazine. And it's huge. Generally users load just one part of it at a time, keeping most of it handy on the discs, instead of loading up the entire thing.

    The GPO Steinway is quite fine for a typically small sampled piano, but there's simply no comparison between it and the large library. You can get an idea of how true this is - the authorized Steinway costs more for that single instrument than the entire GPO orchestral library.

    I can be slow--Sorry I was misunderstanding you through this whole thread, until just now.

    Randy B.

  10. #10

    Cool Re: The Steinway piano has faulty samplesin it?

    AND maybe you can kick back and get to making some music with that piano!
    You're right, that's what I should do.

    GPO itself is just too much content at once, it gets confusing at times

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