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Topic: The PROPER Way To Sell?

  1. #1

    The PROPER Way To Sell?


    Well, the time has come for me to part with the Steinway. My schedule insisted that I could not hold off any longer for the fixes and I had to proceed using my other piano library. And since I am quite happy with that library I really see no merit in holding on to another one that is really un-usable in its current condition (that E one octave up from middle C - play... 'click' ... SLAM!!!). And with no word from Garritan on a date for the fix it is nothing more to me at this point than a "digital paperweight".

    So, I read in the EULA that there is a proper way to sell, or transfer the license, to a new user so I'm curious if anyone here knows how to do this or if anyone here might be interested in buying my Pro copy?

  2. #2

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    Hi, Curt - I've never sold a registered program, so don't know what the procedure is. I've read that through Native Instruments, one has to contact them and unregister first, which is only logical. The Steinway is in the Aria player though, controlled by Garritan's company. Start writing some emails directly to Gary for advice.

    But the main reason I'm writing is because I have no idea what this phrase from your post meant:

    "...(that E one octave up from middle C - play... 'click' ... SLAM!!!)..."

    ? Click, Slam?

    I feel fortunate that the Steinway works perfectly for me, as I know it does for a lot of folks. I wonder what's going on with your system? Unwanted artifacts during live playback, like cut off notes, is always about insufficient buffers, RAM etc - but even on under-equipped computers, rendered tracks of big libraries like the Steinway are recorded smoothly.

    --I wonder what's going wrong? Very odd to hear someone say they feel the Steinway is "unusable"--.

    Randy B.

  3. #3

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    Hi Curt,
    Sorry to hear you haven't been able to use the piano, and thanks for the question about a proper way to transfer license. I've been working on both Steinway basic and the updates exclusively with the intention to post when they're ready to download, so the status unfortunately probably seems neglected, though the piano is in fact in constant development. You might want to check out the Steinway update thread if interested, as I'll post there next. I don't have an answer on policy for licenses or sales (I do programming), so I would suggest for you to send an email to Garritan http://www.garritan.com/contact.html . I'm sure they'll be able to help you. Best wishes

  4. #4

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    But the main reason I'm writing is because I have no idea what this phrase from your post meant:

    "...(that E one octave up from middle C - play... 'click' ... SLAM!!!)..."

    ? Click, Slam?
    Load up the Stage Side perspective and then play and hold this note with close to maximum velocity. Within about 500ms of the ON of the sample you will hear an audible click. About 2-3 seconds later you will hear a VERY audible "bam"!

    This has nothing to do with my system - it's a noise that occurred when the note was being sampled. Others have reported this same noise as well as many others.

    --I wonder what's going wrong? Very odd to hear someone say they feel the Steinway is "unusable"--.

    Randy B.
    I consider it unusable because I am a solo pianist and these noises that are part of some samples are very noticeable in my recordings. I don't have any other instruments to hide behind so they do stand out. I actually thought someone had entered my studio and slammed the door when I first noticed this 'E' noise while I was tracking in headphones!

    There is also considerable noise (or hiss) when I bring the overall level of the audio up to acceptable levels. The hiss worsens with the more notes sounding at once. This is NOT the "mechanical" noise issue that we've reported and is being fixed. This is honest to goodness hiss of several samples playing at once with their levels bumped up to a level that's probably higher than the developers intended. I've heard that this issue is being addressed too in the "fix" but as I stated before, I simply had to proceed without the Garritan Steinway.

    Some might think that I'm just cranking things up too high and that's what is causing all of the hiss. So, what do I consider "acceptable level"? I usually A-B my recordings with a George Winston or David Nevue recording and try to match that level when I master them. When I use my Ivory Steinway preset I can easily achieve the levels I need without noise - background OR sampled. It just sounds perfect.

    No one is more disappointed than me, believe me. I am in love with this product and want it to be my piano. But right now, I am getting everything I need out of my other library so I have to use that one.

    Thanks for the update on the update! I will hang on to my Garritan library until the update is released and give it a go from there. As long as it contains the fixed samples and the velocity curve adjustments and overall gain level setting as we have listed in our "Wish List" here on the forum, I'm sure it will be the best library EVER!


  5. #5

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    Hello again, Curt - Thanks much for the thorough reply.

    I'll never figure out the mysteriously differing experiences people have with various software products. If we assume a level playing field, as in an adequately current and up-to-speed computer, one would think everyone would have the same results using the same software which was stamped into DVDs theoretically consistently the same.

    But such isn't the case. This is a perfect example - I ran your test on the E - and none of the things you described happened. No click, no bam or slam. How can this be--?! - I'm just grateful my copy doesn't behave the same as yours.

    And hiss?--Up at a healthy volume, I'm not experiencing an audible hiss either.

    I'm glad you're getting on with Ivory - Another mystery is why a library so many people have been disappointed in is working well for you. I remember someone who posted a piece that featured his Ivory, and he was really happy with it, and it sounded like the worst free SoundFont ever. In that case, I'm rather sure it was mangled engineering on the part of the user.

    I'll hold on to my Steinway with a protective clutch---maybe it's a freak copy which somehow turned out perfectly!

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    That's really interesting... I've just picked up computer science as my major (last year) and I'm learning all kinds of weird things computers can do if they run programs meant for certain system architectures. I find this kind of thing fascinating. I honestly have no idea how sounds are digitally stored, and how the computer plays it back, but seeing how a number, on say, an Intel machine, can be displayed completely different on a machine running, perhaps, AMD, is pretty interesting.

    If I were to take a guess (and believe me, 1 year of computer science does not make me a computer wiz, so this is a pure guess) glitches as to why computers would display/record/playback completely differently could go all the way down to the very basic elements of the computer. So a certain software could have basic requirements (i.e. MS Vista, 1GB ram, 1.6 GHz processor, etc...) but still have weird issues simply because one machine will read it differently than others. This results in the possibility of faster or slower run times, as a result of the very low level machine code that a computer uses, and might (this is where the HUGE guess comes in) even result in some sort of glitches and bugs that some users on other machines would not experience...

    Anyway, just thought this tied in nicely with my Systems Architecture class and felt the need to respond. Sorry for making absolutely no progress towards your attempt to properly sell you Authorized Steinway
    Michael Obermeyer, Jr.
    youtube channel
    soundclick page

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    What velocity are you playing causing the SLAM sound? This would help narrow down which velocity the noisy sample is at.


  8. #8

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    As I stated in my post the anomaly sounds during the maximum velocity sample. So for the sake of argument, hit it at 127 and you should hear it. It's there every time for me.

    And I wish I could remember who made the post... but a month or two ago someone had reported a few other bad samples that I was able to locate as well. I guess they aren't as obvious or I would have encountered them during my playing!

    I would be happy to post an mp3 of the offending sample for those interested in hearing it.


  9. #9

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    Ah, it wasn't here that the post appeared regarding the overall noise issues with the Garritan library - it was in the PianoWorld forums! While I can't seem to find the exaxt thread that identifies the "clicky" samples, for anyone who is interested you should give a read to propianist's posts. He does quite an excellent job of testing and evaluating the Garritan Steinway as well as a few others.

    Back to the noise I am referring to here... you can also hear it in the Player and Close perspectives as well as the Stage Side one. That's three of the five perspectives!! Just load them up in the standalone player and click on the bottom edge of E (4?, the E one octave above middle C) on the virtual keyboard. Use headphones if you must... it's how I track so I get a very good listen to what I'm playing.

    click... BAM!

  10. #10

    Re: The PROPER Way To Sell?

    While I can't test your E problems, as I have only Classic and Under the lid perspectives (Steinway standard), I seriously agree with your statement about excessive hiss and noise levels.

    The dynamic range of the instrument is impressive, but normalised to -5dB in highest amplitude point, when the whole recording sounds "proper" in terms of volume, the hiss is evident and audible. Especially when many p/pp/ppp notes are sounded at once - it's the moment, when the instrument itself is quite quiet, but noise from all samples is layered and therefore amplified.

    I provide a sample of what I mean:


    it's a fragment of a bigger recording, the part where pianissimo comes out. The hiss - both using headphones and my speakers - is audible. I've added few seconds of perfect silence at the very end - the transition should be noticeable. (Un)fortunately, there are not that many notes there, so the noise is not THAT noticeable, but it certainly is and could be not.

    The library is great overall, I can't wait for the update and I'm not parting with it.

    My best!

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