Think twice before purchasing Eastwest PLAY

[siguitar]

This brings up the main point that keeps getting lost in this endless debate. EW posted the minimum system requirements for Play - THAT was the information that many people accepted when making their purchase decision.

It's always smart to buy software based on minimum specs...

[quantum7]

I also just spent over $1000 in PLAY instruments and would like to be able to use my investment.

[siguitar]

Another "funny" story , EW made an update of play a few days ago ( 1.1.3 ) , they put it offline because many bugs have been discovered. I wonder if they test things before releasing them.

...and they had a new update available in less than one day, complete with apologies...

[dpasdernick]

And my biggest gripe of all........MORE Compatabilty issues for what? A couple of extra squeaks on a string....................Bah HumBug.

JimmyV,

I love this quote! this is what I have been trying to express here. What do I get for 8 gigs of ram and a brand spankin' new, extra expensive computer? Does the solo violin in Gypsy blast the heck out of the VSL solo violin? (Which plays well on my humble PC) Do angels weep when it is played? Or is it a nice sounding "instrument". I really want to get some of the Play libraries but will be waiting a long time before I can afford a new machine and the frickin' massive amount of time it will take to get it purring. Not to mention the days it takes to reinstall all of these huge libs.

Remeber the days of the Roland SRJV80 expansion cards? Those dudes had 32 megs of ram and packed a ton of usable. musical sounds on to them.

Some of these librariess are getting to the point of ridiculous in terms of samples. Play can hold 20,000 samples while Kontakt can only hold 12,000? This is a joke right? Is there anybody hitting the 12,000 limit in Kontakt and saying "Crap, i needed the articulation where the cellist plays a pizz with his left toe but I'm at the limit here" ?

Fun times for sure...

D

PS and if you need 800 megs for a telecaster sound you don't need a new computer and 8 gigs of ram, you need a frickin telecaster... Seriously.

[JimB]

It's always smart to buy software based on minimum specs...

Ah, okay - now I understand. My intelligence is the issue! All 'smart' people know that some software developers cannot be taken at their word. Always assume that what they say isn't actually the truth. GOT IT!

I love how the more those trying to defend this turd of an offering make their case, the more they do just the opposite.

Thanks for the 'in the know' heads up!!! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no MORE!)

[Gregory Shaw]

Darren, I hear what youre saying about stability etc - but next to the realism and expressive potential of samples now - the SRJV80 stuff just sounds poor.

I think its better to embrace whats now available and work with it as best you can, IMO. I cant personally comment on PLAY as Im not using it yet.

[peter269]

Nikolas - to respond to your question.

1. TrueSpec is a dealer for a lot of companies, some direct, and others through distribution companies like Hal Leonard, StepTime Ware, Digital Edge, and others.

2. I am not a representative for any company, nor am I speaking for any company.

3. We called our systems TrueSpec because when we built these systems, we wanted to be the true specs of what enabled the software to run as advertised. In building computer systems for almost a decade, minimum system specs, for any company, is a very nebulous term because no software company, in or out of music, defines what the expected performance for those specs should be.

When I first started the Alexander University online classes, I would calls and emails from students literally all over the world who were having problems with their systems. So for each company by country I tracked the complaints and their recommended solutions.

The most frequent company response - It's your computer.

Shortly after that, I wrote a book called How MIDI Works 6th Edition. I wanted to publish for that time, what were the realistic specs of a PC for the sequencing/digital audio recording programs of that time. I called and/or wrote Emagic, Steinberg, and Cakewalk with this question:

"Will you please tell us the specs of the systems you're testing that are getting the results you're advertising?"

Most frequent answer: We don't recommend computer parts.

I wrote back that if I didn't get my question answered, I was going forward and publishing a set of specs that we knew worked with all the PC programs.

They didn't respond and the book went forward. Shortly after its publication, suddenly, more detailed specs began showing up on their web sites (the book was in all the Guitar Center stores, so that helped).

Then I built a relationship with the Samplitude folks in Germany and they were so proud of their software, and wanted everyone to have their experience with it, that they gave us their specs, part by part.

So we built a test computer and tested Samplitude and the other three programs on it.

Voila! Suddenly the machine was no longer the issue, and that's when at that time we began finding out just how bizarre system integration issues could be and why there was a need for quality parts.

Cheap parts create problems because those parts are primarily designed for use in systems for home, home office, or work, not digital audio.

When you're discussing systems, you have to delineate between a farm system and a main DAW using VSTi's. That's critical to an excellent PC system because on a farm system you have one set of issues whereas on a main DAW you have the issues of the audio card with the sequencing/digital audio program and its quality issues, plus creating a stable host to allow for dozens of companies and how they implement their VSTi's.

For my own writing career I spent weeks researching where I would take my studio in light of the move to 64-bit.

After surveying where I saw the marketplace was going for the next five years, I made a hard core business decision. With rare exception, I would only work with programs from three companies: EastWest PLAY, Native Instruments Kontakt and the Vienna Instruments.

And here was my reasoning - once I learned the interface that was it. I could then limit my time working with technology while maximizing my time with music.

I had a lot of buggy issues with Cubase SX 3 at the time and I was tired of wondering what was going on with FX Teleport. So I moved my sequencing to the Mac with Apple Logic and the VSTi's that worked best on the PC I kept on the PC and those that worked best on the Mac I moved to the Mac.

I spent 23 years in Los Angeles. I know whose percussion is on SD2. So for me not to use SD2 would be a very poor decision because with that percussion, I have my Hollywood studio percussion section. No, my Mac isn't powerful enough to run everything about SD2. But that's not a problem for me because I was a percussion major and I know how to write for percussion. I don't have to rely on MIDI performances.

Before there were sample libraries I did mock-ups for Henry Mancini where I created strong string sections by blending string programs from different computers.

The same principle works with orchestral libraries. I mix QLSO PLAY and String Essentials 2 and I've got a whomping string section. Special effects - add in Symphobia.

All of those libraries really work well together.

The reason I'm going through is to point out that you have to spec your systems and the software. And you have to build relationships with other composers who really know what they're doing. I have a group of three-four friends I confer with who really know their stuff on the PC and the Mac respectively.

When they want to know something more about publishing or marketing, they know I'm here for them because that's an expertise I've acquired that they haven't.

Right now we're in the transition period of going from 32bit to 64bit. It's a painful transition. The period from Windows 98 to XP was also painful. But each new leap in technology, once the transition has passed, has put us in a better production place.

I have a client whose music was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize running Vienna Instruments Symphonic Cube on a PC and QLSO on the Mac. Just a year or so ago, that would have been an 8-10 computer setup.

Today, it's two.

And he paid far less for two quality systems then he would have for buying 8-10 systems with a maximum of 2GB of RAM.

[siguitar]

Ah, okay - now I understand. My intelligence is the issue! All 'smart' people know that some software developers cannot be taken at their word. Always assume that what they say isn't actually the truth. GOT IT!

I love how the more those trying to defend this turd of an offering make their case, the more they do just the opposite.

Thanks for the 'in the know' heads up!!! (wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no MORE!)

Well JB, if you say it's your intelligence I'm not going to stand in your way.


EWQL = Turd? Really?

...Best...Turd...Ever...


And yes, I'm totally in the know.

-I know that buying software based on 'rec spec' is a great idea and if you continue to do it you will be very happy. Go forth and spread your knowledge.

-I know you will never again have a problem with your computer.

-I know that I missed your birthday, so here's a cake


Cheers!

Andy

[tmhuud]

East West rules. Aside from an occasional burst of noise upon loading new patches we are makin sum real happenin tracks here at our studio in West Hollywood, ca.

I've supported Doug and gang since their inception and will continue doing so.

Hey nothings perfect, especially where software is concerned.

[Michiel Post]

Let me give my personal opinion, in no way representing EW as a company.

Have a closer look at the technical issues users have with this engine. Sure, as with any software product out there, there are users who experience problems. The picture in one the previous post shows a page with users complaining about certain issues. I think it takes guts to keep an open support section on a forum. Most companies closed these forums because they are often regarded as bad publicity. Users with technical problems are usually frustrated by their problems and start writing nasty things to illustrate that. Keeping the support section of a forum open shows you want to help people.
First of all EW has a forum that states “the best place to get direct tech support is NOT through the forum but by filling out a tech support ticket”. A highly qualified staff of technical trained engineers is resolving technical issues through this system on a daily basis. But still a lot of users simply ignore the advise to fill out a ticket and some even burst into frustration posting that this and that product is simply not working. If there are sufficient details in such posts, the technical guys actually try to solve these issues also, even though a support ticket is a way more convenient method of transmitting relevant information about technical difficulties. Nevertheless, the result of these on-line support issues is clearly visible on-line as shown by the 'random' pic below.
.

.
To summarize what is in this pic; over the past 24 hours, 6 of the topics now show “RESOLVED” ranging from Library Moved from Mac to PC, Gypsy in ProTools, Goliath in Ableton, drivers issues etc. I –personally- find this an excellent result, noted that this is NOT the preferred way to offer tech support and knowing that the tech support tickets are handled with priority over forum posts.
And then this polite opinion;

to put it simply: PEOPLE WOULD NOT COME HERE TO BITCH IF EASTWEST DID A BETTER JOB AT RESOLVING USER ISSUES IN THEIR OWN FORUM.

Resolving user issues is one of EW’s main concerns. This is normally done in a polite and friendly way, even though many posters become rude, perhaps fuelled by frustration. The above picture says more than capitalized rants. If you come here to bitch, fine, please do so. If you care to have problems resolved…stay calm and try to cooperate with the persons who can help. EW does help people who post on their forum. It works. But, like in any forum, if the moderators find a post offending or inappropriate they can close or delete the topic. It happens everywhere. Now have a look at the NI support forum...

This brings up the main point that keeps getting lost in this endless debate. EW posted the minimum system requirements for Play - THAT was the information that many people accepted when making their purchase decision. In the quote above EW is effectively acknowledging that those were not accurate! And not only that - they add the patronizing use of the term "pro" in contrast to the many hapless 'amateurs' who actually took their word for what would be required. It seems like they just keep adding insult to injury.

Not sure how to say this in a polite way… The minimum system specs are correct. You can run (=play instruments) PLAY on a 3-year old MiniMac. Just don’t expect 256 voices glitch-free playback of 24 bit stereo files. You might as well try to fly to the moon with your bicycle. EW simply creates high-quality sounds that deserve the best equipment for the best results. I am in no way trying to imply that people with complaints have inferior hardware. I’m merely seeing a tendency in this forum that creates misinformation like this:

One thing that's even worst about this is that you can no longer buy the SUPERIOR NI Versions of QLSO or other products. But, now i found out i find out i need at LEAST 8 GB of ram for play AND a 64-bit oS?!?!?. So i cant really run my Silver PLAY without spending money for 8 GB of RAM ?!?! If anyone from East West reads this:GET YOUR STUPID PLAY SOFTWARE TOGETHER AND IF YOU CANT, STOP SELLING IT or least bring back the NI version so i can buy the Gold Bundle. I waited 1 stikin year to have the money for Gold and when i finally do,there's only the crappy PLAY version to buy.

Come on. Geez.
You don’t * need * 8 GB RAM and a 64-bit OS. You *can* use a -previous generation- G5 PPC Mac with 1.5 GB RAM, you can simply expect much better results with more powerful hardware.

Another "funny" story , EW made an update of play a few days ago ( 1.1.3 ) , they put it offline because many bugs have been discovered. I wonder if they test things before releasing them. It's like selling a car without testing if you can start it or if the wheel works... Ok I stop "teasing" them, I know it's probably that teasing attitude that made them ban me from their forum... still it's too bad, teasing isnt bad.

Teasing is fine, it can be the best part of certain activities…
Yes, the new update was tested (by the developers, by a team of public beta testers, by random customers who volunteered) and no problems were found. Off course it was tested, they’re not crazy.
However, when the update was released there appeared issues that were new. They did the right thing, removed it and are ironing out the newly found bugs.

From my personal experience (25 years in the sampling arena, I started with an Emulator 1) I know that solving technical issues is not the favorite hobby for musicians. It has and will always be inevitable though.