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Topic: Browser search with custom tags

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  1. #1

    Browser search with custom tags

    I've just spent large number of hours previewing sound sources in Omnisphere and giving them custom tags - to denote how I might use them in building patches.

    Now I'm going through and searching for the sound sources I've chosen. But I've run into a problem. It seems that the search only works if you type your tags into the search field in the same order that they appear in the sound source custom tag field.

    So for example I put in the tag "top" followed by a comma and then the word "breath". Then I search for either "top", "breath" or "top, breath" and the sound source comes up in the browser. But - if I search for "breath, top" it doesn't come up.

    This means that there is no way for me to search custom tags of sound sources that have both "top" and "breath" unless I happen to have put those terms into the custom tags consecutively and in that particular order.

    Am I missing something? If not, then it would be good to have a better search for custom tags in the next version.

  2. #2

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Would be easier to just put the tag words no matter in what order, like in youtube, without commas etc.

  3. #3

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Searching for multiple terms is an interesting idea, but for structured queries like that, it's usually easier to use the attribute value lists in the browser. In other words, simply click on "top" and "breath" in the attribute value lists in the upper half of the browser. That way you don't have to guess what to search for (did I use "top" or "high" for those tags?). You can simply choose from the list that is presented.

    - Glenn

  4. #4

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    Searching for multiple terms is an interesting idea, but for structured queries like that, it's usually easier to use the attribute value lists in the browser. In other words, simply click on "top" and "breath" in the attribute value lists in the upper half of the browser. That way you don't have to guess what to search for (did I use "top" or "high" for those tags?). You can simply choose from the list that is presented.
    Thanks for your reply.

    Unfortunately user tags don't turn up in browser (or at least I've been unable to get them to). I've been using key words as well, but they have the same problem.

  5. #5

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Just select the attribute type from the type menu. See the browser tutorial for details.

    - Glenn

  6. #6

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    Just select the attribute type from the type menu. See the browser tutorial for details.
    Thanks for pointing that out. It doesn't solve the problem however.

    I'll give you an example. I have a sound source that I could use it for the top end of a pad. So I want to find it under "Pad" but its also sounds "airy" (a term I use a lot) and at the same time it has a "metallic" aspect to it as well as a "motion" element.

    I can't really use the catergory browser system for all this. I'd have to decide what category to put each of these descriptive terms into... or create new ones... but its all so subjective... I'd never remember whether I classified "airy" as a mood category or as a texture category... and what about "metalic" is that "type" or is it "material" or what...

    The thing is, I don't have time to think all this through while I'm making patches (especially with a deadline looming) and even if I did, I'd never remember it all.

    But more importantly, if I put two of these terms, say "airy" and "metallic" into the same category (eg "texture" or "type"), the browser system wouldn't be able to separate them out into sub categories. This limits your ability to search.

    The ability to do searches for more than one user key word (in any order and non-consecutive) would solve all this.

    I could just type in "motion air" and the sound would turn up in the list. Or I could type "pad metallic" and there it would be or "top airy" etc...

    I think we're all so used to using google that its just second nature to want to search.

  7. #7

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    You can indeed do exactly what you want with Attribute tags. You don't need to separate things into Categories to do it either.

    1. In the Patch Browser Edit Tags, make a new Attribute Type called "Timbre"

    2. Create the Assignments you want to use "Airy, Metallic, etc"

    3. Tag these attributes when saving patches

    I mention to do it that way, because we will be adding this "Timbre" attribute type that does exactly what you are describing....including these particular words.

    The Soundsource Library already has the Timbre attribute type, but the Patch library doesn't yet.

    We've got a more advanced tutorial on the Browser in the works that covers this too.

  8. #8

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiphones View Post
    But more importantly, if I put two of these terms, say "airy" and "metallic" into the same category (eg "texture" or "type"), the browser system wouldn't be able to separate them out into sub categories. This limits your ability to search.
    Yes, that works, just ctrl/cmd click on them.

    Searching with the browser works like iTunes, and I think that's a good model of simplicity and power. But, I take your point about being able to do more complex/compound searches.

    - Glenn

  9. #9

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Quote Originally Posted by spectrum View Post
    You can indeed do exactly what you want with Attribute tags. You don't need to separate things into Categories to do it either.

    1. In the Patch Browser Edit Tags, make a new Attribute Type called "Timbre"

    2. Create the Assignments you want to use "Airy, Metallic, etc"

    3. Tag these attributes when saving patches

    I mention to do it that way, because we will be adding this "Timbre" attribute type that does exactly what you are describing....including these particular words.
    Thanks very much for your reply. I must be missing something here and I'm probably going to kick myself in a minute, but I can't get this to work for me.

    First of all I'm working in the Soundsource browser. Within the "Timbre" category I create the new assignments "Airy, Metallic, Breath" I then choose these attributes for the soundsource in question.

    When I go back to the browser under Timbre I see "Airy", "Metallic" and "Breath" as expected.

    But they're all in the same list. So how do I look for something that is Metallic and Breathy but not Airy?

    Because they're all in the same list under "Timber", I can't separate them out. If I click on Airy I get all the soundsources that have that attribute. But there is then no way to look at just the soundsources within Airy, that also are Metallic. Is the way I'm explaining this making sense?

    It looks to me that in order to use the browser to look for all the sounds that are Airy and Metallic, but not the ones that are Breathy (for example) I would have to have each of these attributes in different categories like "Metallic" in the "Timbre" category and "Airy" in the "Mood" category etc... and then I'm back into the problem described above.

    Or am I missing something obvious here?

    I can't quite see how logically you could separate these things out into sub lists, without assigning each attribute "Airy" "Metallic" etc... to different categories. So I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the system. I'm just talking this through incase there's something obvious I'm missing.

  10. #10

    Re: Browser search with custom tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiphones View Post
    Thanks very much for your reply. I must be missing something here and I'm probably going to kick myself in a minute, but I can't get this to work for me.

    First of all I'm working in the Soundsource browser. Within the "Timbre" category I create the new assignments "Airy, Metallic, Breath" I then choose these attributes for the soundsource in question.
    Airy, Breathy and Metallic are already there, so you shouldn't need to create those.

    When I go back to the browser under Timbre I see "Airy", "Metallic" and "Breath" as expected.

    But they're all in the same list. So how do I look for something that is Metallic and Breathy but not Airy?
    You can have everything that's tagged Breathy and Metallic by multi selecting those two attributes at the same time. (Command or Control-click)

    If you want only the sounds that are Metallica and Breathy, you can select Breathy in the Attribute column and then search for Metallic in the Serach field.

    Remember that the search and attributes columns work together. :-)

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