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Topic: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

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  1. #1

    Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    Hello.

    For a project in mind I would need a sampled instrument (or modeled, or whatever really, as long as it's not a real human being playing the piece ), which should pass the 'reality' test: It should sound realistic enough, even to those who play the instrument.

    I play the piano and after dealing with piano samples for a number of years, and for classical music, I've decided that the Garritan Steinway is the piano of my choice. It certainly fools me, so I'm fine with that.

    The question then:

    Which VI instrument, in your opinion, passes as real? I could be fooled by the trumpet (samplemodeling), or the strad (Garritan), but I'm not sure if a trumpetist or a violonist would be fooled indeed.

    This is not for a commercial project, so "what the client thinks", is not relevant really. I will compose for the instrument, as I would take into consideration the qualities of a performer, and their technique; Keeping in mind all the above what would be your choice for the 2nd instrument (of course I'm talking for a duet, right?).

    Out of the box goes straight away the EW stuff that I have. Brilliant sounding, excellent choice for thicker orchestral music, I love my libraries, but no good here. I guess that, for the same reason, Kirk, GPO and maybe even VSL are out? (not sure about VSL, but the other I feel confident enough that they are not exactly right for this kind of thing).

    Thanks and hope to hear from you.

  2. #2

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    How about Vienna Instruments french oboe?

    I think it has a great sound.

    Marko

  3. #3

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    I am not a zither player (disclaimer), but I am super-impressed by what Mark (Wavelore) has done with that library.

  4. #4

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    The WIVI French Horns are marvellous!

    /Thomas
    We are the musikmakers, we are the dreamers of dreams.
    -Willy Wonka

    www.lavergren.com
    Follow me on Twitter!

  5. #5

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by nikolas View Post
    Hello.

    For a project in mind I would need a sampled instrument (or modeled, or whatever really, as long as it's not a real human being playing the piece ), which should pass the 'reality' test: It should sound realistic enough, even to those who play the instrument.

    I play the piano and after dealing with piano samples for a number of years, and for classical music, I've decided that the Garritan Steinway is the piano of my choice. It certainly fools me, so I'm fine with that.

    The question then:

    Which VI instrument, in your opinion, passes as real? I could be fooled by the trumpet (samplemodeling), or the strad (Garritan), but I'm not sure if a trumpetist or a violonist would be fooled indeed.

    This is not for a commercial project, so "what the client thinks", is not relevant really. I will compose for the instrument, as I would take into consideration the qualities of a performer, and their technique; Keeping in mind all the above what would be your choice for the 2nd instrument (of course I'm talking for a duet, right?).

    Out of the box goes straight away the EW stuff that I have. Brilliant sounding, excellent choice for thicker orchestral music, I love my libraries, but no good here. I guess that, for the same reason, Kirk, GPO and maybe even VSL are out? (not sure about VSL, but the other I feel confident enough that they are not exactly right for this kind of thing).

    Thanks and hope to hear from you.
    NO sampled instument or V.I., no matter how good, will fool a real good player of it.

    NONE, Nada, nyet. It is illusory.

    And thank God for that.

    Focus on making it sound good rather than real, the two are not necessarily synonymous.
    Composer, Logic Certified Trainer, Level 2,
    author of "Going Pro with Logic Pro 9."

    www.jayasher.com

  6. #6

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    Jay: I was expecting a reply like yours sooner or later. I can accept the impossible part of what I'm looking for, but I do have to stress that I have my own reasons for searching such an instrument and I'm looking for further info on that.

    I do need it to sound real, in order for it to succeed (the whole project I mean). A further task I guess, but can't share anything more on the project, I'm afraid.

    Thanks for the info anyways, and thanks everyone thus far.

  7. #7

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    I think it all depends what you do with an instrument. There are quite a few instruments out there that would fool even a good player, so long as you stick to what the VI can do, and don't point out that it's samples first.

    For instance the Samplemodelling trumpet fooled my boss, who is a stunningly good brass player (principle trombone with the country's top brass band, and regular in demand from orchestras). I played him the original Haydn Concerto Demo, and simply asked, 'What do you think?' He started talking about defects in the trumpet player's technique, and differences he would make in interpretation, but at least made the assumption that it was a performance. Which is strange, because the only time I ever play him anything is to try and 'convert' him to the benefits of samples - and he's always really cynical, saying that the music is blatantly fake. So for him to not even ask whether this was samples again it must have not even occured to him that it could be.

    Also, the demo sticks very much to the VI's strengths. Had I tried to put together a demo of some screaming jazz he would have seen through it straight away.

    I don't know much about your project, but, if it's not too limited, I would be tempted to find a good mallet instrument. With the availability of round robin, mulitple velocity layers, and the relative simplicity of the playing technique (no legato, pitch bend, vibrato) they're starting to get to where they sound real enough. The SonicCouture Gamelan instruments, for instance, could probably fool most people, so long as a bit of fake performance noise was added.
    David

  8. #8

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    I think that the factor whether a musician is fooled or not has less to do with whether they are good players (or stunningly good players) than with (1) if they are familiar with sampled instruments and know how they differ from the real thing and (2) whether the have some reason to suspect the music from sampled instruments and therefore are listening for that.

    Just my $.02.

    jeffn1


    Quote Originally Posted by Pingu View Post
    I think it all depends what you do with an instrument. There are quite a few instruments out there that would fool even a good player, so long as you stick to what the VI can do, and don't point out that it's samples first.

    For instance the Samplemodelling trumpet fooled my boss, who is a stunningly good brass player (principle trombone with the country's top brass band, and regular in demand from orchestras). I played him the original Haydn Concerto Demo, and simply asked, 'What do you think?' He started talking about defects in the trumpet player's technique, and differences he would make in interpretation, but at least made the assumption that it was a performance. Which is strange, because the only time I ever play him anything is to try and 'convert' him to the benefits of samples - and he's always really cynical, saying that the music is blatantly fake. So for him to not even ask whether this was samples again it must have not even occured to him that it could be.

    Also, the demo sticks very much to the VI's strengths. Had I tried to put together a demo of some screaming jazz he would have seen through it straight away.

    I don't know much about your project, but, if it's not too limited, I would be tempted to find a good mallet instrument. With the availability of round robin, mulitple velocity layers, and the relative simplicity of the playing technique (no legato, pitch bend, vibrato) they're starting to get to where they sound real enough. The SonicCouture Gamelan instruments, for instance, could probably fool most people, so long as a bit of fake performance noise was added.
    For original progressive electronic rock influenced by J.S. Bach and (old) Rush, check out: www.soundclick.com/jeffreynaness.

  9. #9

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    Bass In Face from the Roland JV-1080.

  10. #10

    Re: Solo VI instrument like the real thing?

    The violin from EW Gypsy is incredibly flexible an realistic. It would certainly fool a few, or at least it will make them doubt.

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