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Topic: The Phantom of The Phorum

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  1. #1

    The Phantom of The Phorum

    Welcome to the Phantom of the Opera forum (phorum). Please showcase your attempts at creating a music score to the phantom clip here.

    Also
    Post your:

    1) results
    2) problems
    3) questions
    4) successes
    5) files

    Let's make this a discussion of both the process of creating a video score, questions on 'how to...', info on techniques and software used, etc.

    The two video clips can be found here:

    Quicktime: http://www.box.net/shared/i12zpok6nf

    Windows Media File: http://www.box.net/shared/2kd0e4p5yv

    Read the thread: Movie Challenge Discussion of Video Use for more information.

    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  2. #2

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum



    "The Phantom of the Opera"
    (click Lon Chaney for video)
    This was a blast to work on! I had imported video into Sonar before, but had never tried to score new music to a video clip. It became an all-consuming project that took me several days.

    In Sonar, video is imported as easily as audio - simply choose that option. I tabbed the video view in the lower right quadrant of the screen, so I could smoothly move back and forth from viewing the clip to viewing the Piano Roll View, Tempo View etc.

    As per Sonar's Help files, I right clicked on the video image to get to the Video Properties and then changed the clip's Start Time. My score starts with a pick up measure, and I needed the visuals to start at measure #2. I typed in the Start Time as 2:01:00 instead of 1:01:00 which would have been the very beginning of the Sonar tracks.

    I had to juggle with the Trim-in Time, also typed in with a right click, to adjust the time inside the video clip itself when I wanted video playback to start.

    I still don't quite understand how these two different parameters are displayed. Start Time is in the format of X:XX:XXX, as mentioned above. But the Trim-in Time is in the format of XX:XX:XX:XX. To have the vid line up with where I needed it, I needed to adjust the Trim-in Time to 00:00:00:04.

    What I just described probably sounds confusing if you haven't opened up your app and started working with these parameters. That's the only way the above will make more sense.

    As I usually do, I composed the whole piece first using only Piano. Once I was satisfied with what I'd written, I started fleshing out the arrangement, using a fairly full orchestral instrumentation, with a Pipe Organ coming in at the half way point. I used only Garritan Libraries, by the way – GPO, JABB, CMB, The Strad and The Gofriller. During most of my orchestration work I didn't keep watching the video, being on the Piano Roll View instead.

    The main challenge to me was that I was composing music which made notated sense – I was using proper measures. That started the audio and video off just fine, but then I would come to places where I wanted specific things to be happening in conjunction with the video. While still working in the MIDI realm, I could have started dragging clips, snap off, to where I needed, but that would have destroyed the notation mapping. I wanted to work in terms of measures as long as possible, so I could keep using Sonar's metronome for recording more instruments.

    What I did was change the tempo throughout to keep my roughed-in score and the video in sync. This called for a massive amount of trial and error, drawing and re-drawing tempi until I was matching things up the way I wanted.

    After bouncing the tracks to audio (26 tracks) and developing the mix, adding Reverb and EQ, I still needed to sync up one cue I hadn't been able to rectify by tempo changes.

    With the scissors tool, I sliced all of the tracks, and then by right clicking on the tracks, I adjusted their Start Time to match the exact frame number I'd made note of in the video. This is the shot of the Phantom running which comes right after the two lovers reunite. So if you have any element that you absolutely must have in sync with the video, this is how you get that particular Audio or MIDI clip to line up with the video.

    Slicing all the tracks and adjusting their start times moved them a fraction of a second to the right. To fill the gap, I dragged out the Harp and Cymbals tracks, using the auto-cross fade function, and that covered the gap sufficiently well. If I wouldn't have had any tracks to smooth over the gap, I would have needed to record something on a new track to bridge the space.

    I didn't export a 2-track mix-down to Sound Forge the way I usually do. I simply used the Export Video function to create a new file which had both the original clip and my sound track. I used the highest quality settings possible so the video wouldn't get even more degraded, and to keep the music sounding as good as possible. This short 1 ½ minute clip only ended up 5 megs in size, pretty small.

    I felt clumsy with a lot of the technical parts of the project – getting things to sync up being the general problem area, as to be expected.

    SO – that's an over view of my experience with this. Hope some other people did some “Phantom” work and can pass on what their experience was like!

    Randy B.

  3. #3

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    What I did was change the tempo throughout to keep my roughed-in score and the video in sync. This called for a massive amount of trial and error, drawing and re-drawing tempi until I was matching things up the way I wanted.
    Hey, Randy,

    I want to turn you on to the feature that was the single greatest reason that I upgraded from Sonar Home Studio to full Sonar. When you are in the piano roll (and maybe the track view, as well), set your NOW marker to some place that you want to make the beginning of a measure (or, any other specific place in a measure). Then type ctrl-M. This will open a dialog that will automatically adjust the tempo (without changing the absolute length of the notes) so that the specified note lands at the specified measure and beat.

    I regularly use this function when arranging. I will play in my piano part free-time (without regard to a metronome) and use this feature to then cause my measures to line up with what I played. That way I can take the MIDI into Finale and add other parts that way.

    I can't wait to get home tonight and listen to what you wrote for this. It sounds like you put a lot of effort into it (ah, to be a full-time musician)

    Rob

  4. #4

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Randy, very nicely done. The description of your process is excellent and gives many good pointers for others that will try this with Sonar. I have Sonar alos, but did my clip using Finale 08. Later I will describe in detail how I managed the techniques in Finale. The music matches the video greatly. This is what this "PHORUM" is for, to help others master thses new techniques. Thanks for the time spent, the video clip and the wonderful description of how you managed the enviroment of sound and video.

    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  5. #5

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Rob, thanks for the Sonar pointers. I was not aware of the <ctrl>m function. I can't wait to get to my computer and try that out. I know I have seen it before, but can't remember where, a function sheet for all the keystroke functions in Sonar. If you know where that can be located, that would be of great use to many here.

    Thanks for the input ,

    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  6. #6

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Quote Originally Posted by raweber View Post
    ... set your NOW marker to some place that you want to make the beginning of a measure (or, any other specific place in a measure). Then type ctrl-M. This will open a dialog that will automatically adjust the tempo (without changing the absolute length of the notes) so that the specified note lands at the specified measure and beat...Rob
    HEY--So cool! Thank you Very much for this tip, Rob. I didn't know Sonar had a function like that, it sounds great. Obviously the real way to do what I struggled with.

    Well sir! That'll certainly make the next video scoring project easier - I spent so much of time on this just trying to get my hits where I wanted them.

    Thank you!

    Randy B.

  7. #7

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Wow! So glad that lil' ol' me could help out the giants of the forum. Like I said, that was the whole reason that I upgraded to the full version of Sonar (the Home Studio version included this function in the documentation, but not in the actual program).

    Of course, since I can't stay with a metronome to save my life, I kinda needed it...

  8. #8
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    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    HEY--So cool! Thank you Very much for this tip, Rob. I didn't know Sonar had a function like that, it sounds great. Obviously the real way to do what I struggled with.

    Well sir! That'll certainly make the next video scoring project easier - I spent so much of time on this just trying to get my hits where I wanted them.

    Thank you!

    Randy B.
    How long have I been using Sonar and I didn't know about this either!

    Nice, thanks Rob!

    Jon

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    Posts
    183

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Quote Originally Posted by wrayer View Post
    Randy, very nicely done. The description of your process is excellent and gives many good pointers for others that will try this with Sonar. I have Sonar alos, but did my clip using Finale 08. Later I will describe in detail how I managed the techniques in Finale. The music matches the video greatly. This is what this "PHORUM" is for, to help others master thses new techniques. Thanks for the time spent, the video clip and the wonderful description of how you managed the enviroment of sound and video.

    Bill
    Bill,

    I'm looking forward to hearing you detail your process in Finale 08. I usually do this sort of thing in Sonar but really prefer to look at notation when composing. I *finally* upgraded from Finale 2001 to '09 so would like to try this out.

    Jon

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Posts
    183

    Re: The Phantom of The Phorum

    Oh, and very nicely done Randy, I really enjoyed the intensity in your version!

    Jon

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