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Topic: Triple and Double Tongue

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  1. #1

    Triple and Double Tongue

    Triple and Double Tongue Picture

    Hi - I am trying to create using Garritan Aria Engine the sound of a trumpet triple and double tonguing in the above Treble Clef passage.

    I see the section of the Aria Engine where you can control the cc values of 21, 22, and 23. But I can not for the life of me get a realistic sounding triple and double tongue - they all sound blurred, no matter what settings I use. I have added staccato marks and even tried setting the durations with the midi tool to 80% and less, but still do not get anything close to a triple tongue or a double tongue sound.

    Has anyone found a solution to this problem and if so, can you post that here?

    Thanks,
    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  2. #2

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    For staccato markings I usually shoot for something in the rage of 50% duration at the most. 80% is practically full value.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  3. #3

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    I will give that a try. Thanks bmdaustin
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  4. #4

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    Quote Originally Posted by bmdaustin View Post
    For staccato markings I usually shoot for something in the rage of 50% duration at the most. 80% is practically full value.
    Well, since a sampled sound is not truly midi data - I assume that fussing with the midi tool will get no results. As I experimented, I found this to be true.

    I have come up with some settings which fare pretty well.

    Here is the sound I am able to get emulating double tonguing:

    William Tell

    and here is the picture of my settings (a picture is worth a thousand words):

    Aria Engine Settings I used for Double Tonguing

    I really would like to hear from others that have worked on this.

    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  5. #5
    Senior Member
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    Oct 2003
    Location
    NW Illinois
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    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    Bill,

    I just did a quick test in Finale. I inputted a few measures from "Bugler's Holiday" that I used to play back in high school. When doing this type of tongueing, the notes are clipped very, very short.

    What I thought worked fairly quickly was to create a separate staccato articulation with an extremely short duration of 25% assigned to that marking. I only used that staccato on the triple tongued notes. The "normal" staccato on the others. And I changed the var. 1 & var. 2 settings slightly to add a little variation.

    It worked for me.

    JT

  6. #6

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Turner View Post
    Bill,

    I just did a quick test in Finale. I inputted a few measures from "Bugler's Holiday" that I used to play back in high school. When doing this type of tongueing, the notes are clipped very, very short.

    What I thought worked fairly quickly was to create a separate staccato articulation with an extremely short duration of 25% assigned to that marking. I only used that staccato on the triple tongued notes. The "normal" staccato on the others. And I changed the var. 1 & var. 2 settings slightly to add a little variation.

    It worked for me.

    JT
    Yes, I have played "Bugler's Holiday" many times. It used to be a required piece for us trumpets in the Kent State Univ. Symphonic Band (Anyone of us could be called to play the piece on any part from memory as a showpiece with the band in concert.) I have even played the piece (all three parts) with band as a solo - now that's fun!

    I will try what you say and see what happens.

    Thanks,
    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  7. #7

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    Quote Originally Posted by wrayer View Post
    Well, since a sampled sound is not truly midi data - I assume that fussing with the midi tool will get no results. As I experimented, I found this to be true.

    I have come up with some settings which fare pretty well.

    Here is the sound I am able to get emulating double tonguing:

    William Tell

    and here is the picture of my settings (a picture is worth a thousand words):

    Aria Engine Settings I used for Double Tonguing

    I really would like to hear from others that have worked on this.

    Bill
    To me what doesn't sound natural is the length of the eighth notes. If you're using Finale I like the articulation that's a tenuto and staccato combined (I forget what that's called). I can't try it out right now, but I might try using that articulation on all of the notes and see what the result is. I think a staccato on the sixteenth makes those notes too short to be heard clearly and the eighth note sounds longer than someone would play the note. Just my opinion of course.

    Steve Winkler

  8. #8

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    I will give that a try and see, but I really am trying to access the Aria Engine controls as the Finale Manual suggests these controls (cc21 and cc22) will give more control over the double tonguing. I am using Finale 2009.

    Bill
    We dream to write and we write to dream.

    Challenge #10 Winner

  9. #9

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    I suppose you could create a hidden expression that uses those controllers and type in the value you want.

    Steve Winkler

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    NW Illinois
    Posts
    1,175

    Re: Triple and Double Tongue

    Quote Originally Posted by swinkler View Post
    I suppose you could create a hidden expression that uses those controllers and type in the value you want.

    Steve Winkler
    Bill,

    I think Steve is right here. If you manually set the controls in the Aria Player, then those same settings will be used for everything. That's probably not going to work. Either use hidden midi expressions or the midi tool to manipulate these CC controls as needed.

    JT

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