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Topic: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

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  1. #1

    Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    I have just purchased a new MacBook Pro, and have installed Sibelius 5, with the latest updates, including Sibelius Essentials (which I normally don't install), and Garritan Personal Orchestra from CD.

    I have downloaded all the updates for Sibelius, Kontakt and GPO, and have hopefully installed them correctly in roughly the right order.

    The problem is that when I open Sibelius, and go to the Playback Devices manager, unlike other interfaces like DLSMusicDevice, I cannot create a manual soundset for it.

    When I select Kontakt Player as either an Audio Unit or VST, then when I choose Soundset None, and go to the Manual Sound Sets tab, then the tickbox for manual soundset is disabled and cannot be ticked. Is it Sibelius Essentails that have messed this up, as normally I can use this function to create my own soundsets, as I prefer to control the music with my own MIDI and key switches as Sibelius does not manage this to my taste with its new dictionary system.

    Many thanks to anyone who can help, as this is driving me mad.
    Leon

  2. #2

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    I'm not an expert, but I think there is a setting in the File/Preferences menus that says "Allow manual sound sets?". Make sure that is selected.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  3. #3

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    Thanks a lot, that fixed it. You have no idea how long that stumped me. Completely forgot that I needed to check that preference, or that it even existed. Bit of a silly option if you ask my, why would you not want it checked? Hehe, but thanks again for that.
    Leon.

  4. #4

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    There are plenty of things about Sibelius that don't make sense to me, but good luck trying to convince them they're wrong. For instance, I often use the Sib Essentials just because it's there and I never use Sib to create an audio mix. So, to speed up booting the program, I have it set to "Default" which is the MS generic soundset and then it switches to Sib Essentials (after I answer a dialogue query) when I open a file. It then loads up all of Sib Essentials. When I then hit Play to playback my file, it loads in the subset of sounds from Sib Essentials that are used in that file. Why doesn't Sib just look at the file in the first place and go and load those files automatically, thereby saving a step loading samples that aren't ever used?
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  5. #5

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    Yes, I know. I find that Sibelius is a very brilliant piece of software that is amazing for composers and musicians. I love working with it and it has revolutionized the way I can compose. HOWEVER, it is full of bad programming, bugs, poor interface design and all of the worst examples of amateur programming. I took the time to write a comprehensive bug list for some of the earlier versions of Sibelius and posted them it. A lot of those bugs are still in version 5! When you comment on this in the forums, all you get is a very arrogant and supercilious response, which basically says, we know about this, but expect nothing soon, if at all.

    I was hoping now the software had been purchased by AVID then it might improve. Yet to see any evidence of that.

    Keeping fingers crossed.

  6. #6

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    When I boot the program, I boot to the Default setting (MS generic soundset) to speed up the process. When I load a file, I get a box saying, this file uses Sib Essentials 32 - load it now? Yes. It then loads up all 32 sounds across two instances of K2 Player. However my file doesn't use any strings or marching percussion or any of that other stuff. It uses a standard big band instrumentation (saxes, trpts, trbns, rhythm section). So, when I press Play, Sib then delays and (re)loads the sounds actually needed for the file.

    There are extra steps in there that are unnecessary. Sib shouldn't load any sounds in the first place until I open a file, at which point it should parse the file, find the necessary sounds and then load them. If it has a question, it can ask me.

    Their reasoning, which I have received in response to threads on their forum, is that things are set up as they are for the sake of portability and sharing. I disagree. If you and I have Sib, then we both have the Essentials. If you and I have different sample libraries, then Sib can first look for any common sounds and then when it finds none, it can ask the user what sounds he/she would like to use. If you and I are working with unique synth patches, say from something like Atmosphere or Absynth, then we wouldn't be sharing the files in the first place unless we both had common software. Their big idea is that Sib does this sound selection in the background as a service or feature to the user. However, it frequently guesses wrong which creates that much MORE work for me undoing Sib's choices and then having to make the selections I would have made in the first place - OR - it loads sounds I don't want or need. This is a hindrance, not a help.
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  7. #7

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    Quote Originally Posted by jjloving View Post
    Sounds to me like you've saved the playback configuration when the sounds were loaded. It's actually fairly easy to save a configuration with loaded instances without realizing it...try deleting the current Sib Essentials 32, and then creating it new to see if it persists.
    Why wouldn't you want to save the configuration with the file. Isn't that the idea? So the file knows which sounds to load? If not, why is this information there twice (config and file info)? That doesn't make sense and it's not apparent to the user, at least not to this user, and I've been using music software professionally for 20 years.

    So, how do I delete the current Essentials and how do I keep from repeating this "mistake"? Do I have to delete the Essentials every time I close the file? How many more steps do I have to take to keep Sib from getting in my way further? This does not fall under the category of user friendliness.

    Just to see, I set Sib to use the "Default: MS" on startup, restarted Sib, and then opened a score that uses Sib Essentials 32. I instructed to change the playback device, and Sib loaded only those sounds that were in the score, and did not load anything else after hitting play.
    That's exactly the process I'm using, with unsatisfactory results. So, you're saying that if I were to set Essentials as the Default config upon booting up, then I should just be able to open a file and have it load only those sounds needed for that file? If that's the case, then why does Sib have to ever load Essentials in the first place? I should be able to open a file, any file, and Sib should figure out from the file information which sounds are needed and go get them. What's so hard about that? Why the multiple layers?

    Now I won't argue that the patch selection isn't always appropriate - I fully agree there are issues there, but loading 'random' patches just to unload them is not something I've ever encountered.

    Jon
    The patches aren't random, they're part of the Sib Essentials 32 soundset which are loaded when I choose to change my Playback Device from Default.

    I guess my real beef is that Sib needs to load sounds at all to configure itself. All it needs to know are what VSTi's are on your system. It shouldn't load anything until a file is opened. The default Config should be "Everything On My Computer". When a file is opened, Sib should parse the file and go get the necessary sounds - no extra loading or accidental saving or reassigning or any of that nonsense, just clarity and performance. Is that so much to ask? From version 5 already?
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  8. #8

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    OK, Jon. Thanks for your patience. I've got it fixed - I hope - for now. It occurs to me, though, that I've never touched the SE-32 configuration other than to load it into a score. I've never saved it loaded with sounds, other than saving a score while working on it or before closing it. This tells me that by default it's loaded with sounds and must be manually "emptied" and re-saved. Also, If I'm not mistaken, a clean install of Sib sets up SE-32 to be the Default config unless the user changes it to "Default MS".

    All of this is to say that it's quite likely that I'm not the only one experiencing this situation and there could be plenty more folks out there unknowingly putting up with multiple loads because they don't know any better. If you have any pull with Sib at all, find out why the professional user has to defeat one behavior (Default Config) and then work through several other steps (to empty and rename SE-32) to create the optimal performance scenario. Somebody needs to seriously re-think usability and the user experience.

    [/rant]
    Paul Baker
    Baker's Jazz And More
    Austin, Texas, USA
    www.bakersjazzandmore.com

  9. #9

    Re: Problems with Kontakt player 2, GPO and Sibelius

    I bought Sibelius recently, and while I like the program, the VST implementation is a real pain. Honestly, when I have a score open and play around with instruments in Kontakt Player 2 (GPO), why does it not save my changes when I save the score?

    Having been through the reference manual and these posts (thanks!) I think I have a better handle on this now, but for someone used to using a normal DAW, this is a real hassle -- and should be done better in a $500 program.

    Also, Sibelius doesn't remember changes to effects in the Master Effects section, so I have re-enter master compression settings every time? Again, this needs to be better.

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