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Topic: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

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  1. #1

    New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Hi Jeff / Garry / David P –

    Just downloaded and installed the new v 1.03 of Steinway off the .biz website. Was actually surprised to find it up there. Would have been nice to be alerted to its availability. Maybe like some others, I had been waiting for some 'official' notice that the 'official' update was at long last available to d/l from the 'official' website. In any case, glad it's finally arrived.

    I do have a question: In the printed guide to the Steinway Professional, on page 95, under the heading MIDI Controls, it states:
    Pitchbend, Modulation Wheel, Channel Pressure (Aftertouch), and Program Change commands do not have any effect
    Well, I have discovered today that is no longer the case. After trying to figure out why the new v 1.03 sounds of my Steinway suddenly sounded so muddied, w/ lots of echoed space, whereas the sounds of v 1.01, which I had been happily using previously, were so full, warm and immediate – as a piano sounds to a pianist, not to someone back in the mezzanine –I realized that the mod wheel, in its rest position, was the culprit. If I moved it up, the muddiness receded. Down, there it was again. Seems to hold true in all five of the perspectives. I'd like to suggest that it sure would have been nice to have a little readme file included with the update to advise users of the changes made to the program, with instructions on how to use the new version's changes. Don't ya think?

    While we're at it, are there any other changes we should be aware of with v 1.03? Would appreciate knowing about it/them, to avoid further surprises.

    Just a li'l ol' text file, to explain the changes, would go a long way.

    Meanwhile, once that muddiness is removed, the Steinway is still an awesome program!! Thanks to all of you guys who worked on it and developed it.

    Bob V

  2. #2

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Any chance you missed this thread from Jeff??

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...ad.php?t=65281

    Sums it all up pretty well. Shy of a formal email to all registered users I think this was quite sufficient!

    Curt

  3. #3

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    No, I probably did read that thread (but probably didn't remember in detail everything in it), as I'd been patiently waiting for any official word that the official 1.03 was finally up on the official site, ready for download. As far as I can tell, even now, there's still no official word on this board of its being up there . (Currently 6:45 AM EDT on Sunday morning. Last word I read on here was that it was going to be up last Monday or possibly the Friday before that.) But that's not the point, I'm glad it's finally up, however long it took.

    I had been disappointed with the 1.02 update. Felt it didn't improve things any, for my tastes, but rather was, if anything, a step backward. So I've kept using 1.01, and really looked forward to trying out the new official 1.03. All those release notes (quoted above from Jeff's post on this board) say about the use of the mod wheel is that it "now controls the release sample volume." Does that fully explain the muddiness of the sound with the mod wheel at its default (down) position? I guess so. Raising the mod wheel would raise (or lower) the release sample volume – which one is it? Seems like the default position of the mod wheel should have less of the release sample volume (which, I would think, would have less muddiness added to the piano sound) and raising the mod wheel would give you more of the release sample volume, thus more muddiness. (Sorry to use such a non-technical term. I don't know how else to describe what I hear.) Yet it seems to be set up the opposite way – i.e., down (default) = more muddiness, up = less muddiness (just as it was in prior version). Feel maybe it should be explained in a bit more detail, so that just plain ol' pianists (as I consider myself) using the software could get a better grasp of its use.

    And, in any case, the release notes for the update, however detailed or non-detailed they decide to make them, should be included as part of the official download from the official website. That's really the point of my suggestion. One shouldn't have to delve through all these threads on this forum to search for new feature(s) in a new release. Explanation(s) of any new feature(s) should be readily at hand. That's certainly how I would do it.

    Over and out ...

    Bob V

  4. #4

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Yeah, I see what you mean. A "sticky" thread at the top of the forum that announces the release of the update would be the best approach and seems to be what other forums do. Agreed.

    I also agree with you that 1.02 broke a few things (that sustain bug made it unusable!) but 1.03 took care of that for me. I don't play on a controller with a mod wheel to reap any benefit from the new features that support that but I also don't experience the strangeness that you are experiencing with it either.

    Man, computers can suck sometimes! What a necessary evil they have become.

  5. #5

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    Yeah, I see what you mean. A "sticky" thread at the top of the forum that announces the release of the update would be the best approach and seems to be what other forums do. Agreed.
    Thank you for seeing my point, Curt! Absolutely – making it a "sticky" thread would accomplish the same thing.
    [/quote] I also agree with you that 1.02 broke a few things (that sustain bug made it unusable!) but 1.03 took care of that for me. I don't play on a controller with a mod wheel to reap any benefit from the new features that support that but I also don't experience the strangeness that you are experiencing with it either. [/quote]
    Well, just as it's no fun to be the only one with an illness that no doctor's ever encountered before, it's similarly no fun to be the only one to report an annoying default muddiness in an update to a wonderful product like the Garritan Steinway. Perhaps there are, or will be, some others who will have experienced the same default 'muddiness' which I noted in my original post. If so, great; that will confirm what I said. If not, and I remain the only one, I'll still remain confident in what my ears hear.

    Thanks so much for responding.

    Bob V

  6. #6

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Studio V View Post
    Thank you for seeing my point, Curt! Absolutely – making it a "sticky" thread would accomplish the same thing.
    I also agree with you that 1.02 broke a few things (that sustain bug made it unusable!) but 1.03 took care of that for me. I don't play on a controller with a mod wheel to reap any benefit from the new features that support that but I also don't experience the strangeness that you are experiencing with it either. [/quote]
    Well, just as it's no fun to be the only one with an illness that no doctor's ever encountered before, it's similarly no fun to be the only one to report an annoying default muddiness in an update to a wonderful product like the Garritan Steinway. Perhaps there are, or will be, some others who will have experienced the same default 'muddiness' which I noted in my original post. If so, great; that will confirm what I said. If not, and I remain the only one, I'll still remain confident in what my ears hear.

    Thanks so much for responding.

    Bob V[/quote]

    What keyboard are you using as a controller?

  7. #7
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    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Quote Originally Posted by StudioV View Post
    Perhaps there are, or will be, some others who will have experienced the same default 'muddiness' which I noted in my original post. If so, great; that will confirm what I said. If not, and I remain the only one, I'll still remain confident in what my ears hear.
    Not happening with my setup. Sorry you're having this problem but it works as promised for me.
    Jerry
    Dayton, Kentucky
    Personally, I'm waiting for caller IQ.

  8. #8

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Quote Originally Posted by davinwv View Post
    What keyboard are you using as a controller?
    Hi,

    I've got two which I use, mostly its a Kurzweil PC-88, with a Yamaha KX-88 as a secondary. Seeing your question posted made me go back and test both, to see if the Yamaha behaved any differently than the Kurzweil. There is no difference at all. The problem is identical using both keyboard controllers. I did discover, however, that on initial startup (I'm talking about the standalone app here), when my saved default setup loads – Under The Lid perspective with all my personal tweaks on, ie, the amount of resonances I like, the eq, a bit of reverb, etc – there is no problem. What a pleasant surprise! But when I then load any of the other perspectives, the problem I described is absolutely there – using either controller. So I have not been imagining things. Funny, though, when I then load a clean vanilla Under The Lid perspective (ie, without any tweaks, nothing on the 'space' tab turned on), the muddy sound is not there. (I hadn't noticed that before.) It just manifests itself on the other 4 perspectives when loaded clean. Again, using either controller, exactly the same result.

    Things are sure getting curiouser and curiouser ... I'll give it another day or so, I guess. If I don't get a response from Jeff or David P by then, I'll try to download 1.03 from the .biz site again. See if that changes anything. Maybe by reinstalling a newer download, the problem will be gone. It seems like noone else has encountered what I have, and it seems to be limited in my case to the non-Under-The-Lid perspectives. Maybe those specific files got corrupted somehow. I'm sure we'll get it corrected one way or t' other. At least, I hope so.

    Thanks a bunch for your interest.

    Bob V

  9. #9

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Bob,
    The mod wheel (controlling release sample volume) on your system may not be working as I intended for some reason. At one extreme of mod wheel there should be essentially no audible release samples, and at the other extreme the release sample volume should be identical to the previous Steinway versions. I'll try to reproduce the problem you're having but I haven't experienced it yet.
    If you have any more information about what's happening or what seems to cause it I'd be grateful to hear the information. Am I correct that you are using Windows (what version Windows?) and the stand-alone Steinway?

  10. #10

    Re: New use of mod wheel in v 1.03?!

    Jeff,

    I am very glad to hear from you. I've been checking here to see when, or if, any of you head guys would get back to me to try to help solve this problem. Right now, I'm about to take my wife to a doctor's appt, so I don't have much more than a few seconds...

    I'm running the Steinway Pro 24bit on Win XP SP3. 3.0+g hyperThreading Intel, with the PC88 Kurzweil as main controller (KX88 Yamaha as secondary backup). As stated above, same results using either one. I did remember this morning that when I installed 1.03 and the sample manager popped up, I had it verify (it used anotther word in the dropdown) each of the perspective files, so I don't think they're corrupted

    Sorry, have to leave now. I'll be glad to respond further when I get back later this afternoon.

    Bob V

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