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Topic: First Work using GPO

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  1. #1

    First Piece Using GPO

    Well, I'll admit I had GPO for 3 years - but I didn't read the manual... Yes. Stupid me.

    So I gave up on it and moved to using a so-so-quality soundfont.

    Then, after listening to the reorchestrations done by the ZREO Music team, I decided I'd try again.

    This time I read the manual.

    And figured out why the volume was so low. Mod Wheel! :/

    Anyway, here's my first actual work using GPO. It has no title yet, but has a random filename.

    MP3 [00:08:32]

    Update: What began as a simple experiment with percussion to try and get better at it ended up turning into a short piece. :P Memories of Armenia

    Feedback - musical or technical - would be very helpful.
    Last edited by vartan; 03-19-2009 at 12:15 AM. Reason: changed title - wasn't happy with it :/

  2. #2
    Senior Member bigears's Avatar
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    Re: First Work using GPO

    Hi and welcome to the community!
    I'm happy to hear you found your way back to GPO! It sounds like you've got a lot of music in you wanting expression and this is the greatest place to do that.

    The snare drum thing that ends the opening drum phrase doesn't really work.
    And that's a shame because you've written a cool piece that has a great impact. That drum just sounds like a mechanical buzz or synthisized sound.
    I'm not familiar enough with the percusssion to know how to fix that, but I'm sure others here are.

    The piece as a whole is quite good and just needs some fine tuning and tweaks with the midi controller data to make the instruments really sing.

    There's that drum thing at the end again. Too bad, the flute and low instrument and the strings there really have a great sound. Thanks for sharing your work here. Keep at it and bring some more! John

  3. #3

    Re: First Work using GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by bigears View Post
    The snare drum thing that ends the opening drum phrase doesn't really work. ... That drum just sounds like a mechanical buzz or synthisized sound.
    Yes, that's quite the problem here. What I did is do a tremolo (is that what it's called?) but that's how my old synthesizer worked... so I need to figure out how to do it properly in GPO. :/

    Thanks for your feedback! Every little bit helps.
    One of the many 14 year old geeks/nerds/whatever-you-want-to-call-them.

  4. #4

    Re: First Work using GPO

    Vartan:

    Welcome to the Garritan Forum Listening Room. Seems like
    you waited a long time to post, but your explanation is certainly
    understandable.

    I think you have a really good piece here. I'm not a percussionist
    either, but I know there are others that will help you deal with the
    "machine gun" effect of your snare.

    I really liked your "pads" and melody line. Seems like you also did
    a good job of balancing your instruments throughout. In short,
    a great effort and a very musical one. When you have some time,
    practice with the mod wheel in hearing what it can do to instrument
    lines as far as dynamics are concerned. No musician plays a note or
    sequence of notes at the same volume. Try to imagine that you are
    a symphony musician playing the various instruments. I know your
    ear will direct you to the right places.

    Hoping to hear some more of your music soon.

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  5. #5

    Re: First Work using GPO

    I'm listening to Raymond62's massive symphony right now, but as for the percussion. What comes to mind quickly for me is that you can play the rolls for snare on your keyboard. You will have to check the Garritan notes for snare drum but the is one that plays the snare when you depress it and a second hit when you take your finger off the keyboard note. Doing that as 16th notes with 2 fingers will give you a basic drum roll because it is like getting 2 notes every time you strike a key thus 32nd notes. The beauty of playing it is that you will not get the "machine gun effect" because you won't be completely precise with striking each of the notes. Afterwards you could add the dynamics and accents. Remember that things like drums and pianos are velocity driven and do not use the mod wheel for there dynamic changes. Just as in the real world anything you hit or strike is velocity driven. If it is a wind instrument or a bowed string then the mod wheel sets the volume.

    There are some built in rolls for snare in GPO but for longer rolls it is best to play them yourself. You can of course save those rolls as midi files and use them in other works as well.

    I Will listen and comment on your music. I just wanted to give you my 2 cents on the drum thing. Welcome to the forum!!!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  6. #6

    Talking Re: First Work using GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhap2 View Post
    I really liked your "pads" and melody line. Seems like you also did
    a good job of balancing your instruments throughout. In short,
    a great effort and a very musical one. When you have some time,
    practice with the mod wheel in hearing what it can do to instrument
    lines as far as dynamics are concerned.
    Ah yes, the mod wheel. As I don't have a keyboard, I'm inputting the MIDI data in a graph using my music. However, I see what you mean and I definitely will play around with it to get a feel of the control. Thank you for your feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR View Post
    ...[there] is one that plays the snare when you depress it and a second hit when you take your finger off the keyboard note. Doing that as 16th notes with 2 fingers will give you a basic drum roll because it is like getting 2 notes every time you strike a key thus 32nd notes. The beauty of playing it is that you will not get the "machine gun effect" because you won't be completely precise with striking each of the notes. Afterwards you could add the dynamics and accents.
    Wow. That was... thorough. Thanks!
    One of the many 14 year old geeks/nerds/whatever-you-want-to-call-them.

  7. #7

    Re: First Work using GPO

    Vartan

    For 14 years old, this is great. I can just imagine where you will be if you keep doing this until you are as old as the rest of us.


    To get a good roll you need to make sure of 2 things. The velocities have to change during the roll and the spacing between the hits also have to vary.

    Since you don't have a keyboard you will have to draw in the Mod wheel data into your graph. I assume by graph you mean a pianoi roll? Just enter cc 1 data (Mod wheel) and that will give your instruments a more realistic feel.

    Well done

    Ron
    "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein

    http://composersforum.ning.com/profile/RonaldFerguson

  8. #8

    Lightbulb Re: First Work using GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by rolifer View Post
    For 14 years old, this is great. I can just imagine where you will be if you keep doing this until you are as old as the rest of us.
    Eh, you're embarrassing me.

    Quote Originally Posted by rolifer View Post
    To get a good roll you need to make sure of 2 things. The velocities have to change during the roll and the spacing between the hits also have to vary.
    I see. I'm going to go and try to revise what I have now.

    I am very happy to get some feedback - it's something I've been lacking for a long time.

    Thanks a bunch!
    One of the many 14 year old geeks/nerds/whatever-you-want-to-call-them.

  9. #9

    Re: First Work using GPO

    Hi, Vartan - My turn to say Welcome!

    Really nice things going on in your projects! - Confused -you posted two pieces in the one post -

    So much more going on here than in most early work. Harmonic complexities, engaging melodies, you've done so much in fleshing out what you're wanting the listener to hear.

    As with anyone, just some technical things that get in the way of the recording/rendering.

    Percussion in the second piece sounded much better, since the first link features the dreaded Machine Gun Effect, as we call it, on the snare drum--and it's been mentioned several times on the thread.

    If you can play a keyboard at all, I highly recommend it as a more satisfying way to work with MIDI - that's one thing. Then you can follow the advice given to you here about actually Playing the snare notes, and wanting them imperfect, as Ron pointed out, to get a more realistic result.

    But I don't think anyone mentioned that GPO has a snare roll already recorded for you--no tricky playing involved. In both the Basic Orchestral Percussion "instrument," and the Snares instrument - C#3 has a great sounding snare roll - the sample is of a drummer doing a roll. You control the volume with Mod Wheel (CC#1) info--obviously you can ramp it up for a swell. Try that!

    Thanks for sharing some wonderful music!

    P.S. - That's quite a story--you had GPO for 3 years but hadn't cracked the manual even one page in where in bold type it warns users that the Mod Wheel is THE most important thing to know about it. tsk tsk tsk!!

    Randy

  10. #10

    Post Re: First Work using GPO

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    - Confused -you posted two pieces in the one post -
    Well, the first piece was really what I had intended to post, but after all the feedback on the horrible drum roll I couldn't help it but post a "try-again."

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Percussion in the second piece sounded much better, since the first link features the dreaded Machine Gun Effect, as we call it, on the snare drum--and it's been mentioned several times on the thread.
    Phew! I was hoping that it would be better.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    If you can play a keyboard at all, I highly recommend it as a more satisfying way to work with MIDI - that's one thing. Then you can follow the advice given to you here about actually Playing the snare notes, and wanting them imperfect, as Ron pointed out, to get a more realistic result.
    I used to have a pretty good keyboard... and it broke... very suddenly...

    After that I got a Moog PianoBar for my grand but I've noticed that it's much better for recording piano music as a whole rather than working with instruments one by one.

    So now I'm pretty much stuck with no keyboard, and my parents aren't willing to buy anything expensive, especially in this recession. If you could point me to a good keyboard, I would be very much obliged. I've searched online but couldn't settle on whether the keyboards I found were actually good or not. Hard for me to tell without actually trying them out.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    But I don't think anyone mentioned that GPO has a snare roll already recorded for you--no tricky playing involved. In both the Basic Orchestral Percussion "instrument," and the Snares instrument - C#3 has a great sounding snare roll - the sample is of a drummer doing a roll. You control the volume with Mod Wheel (CC#1) info--obviously you can ramp it up for a swell. Try that!
    Ah yes, the recorded roll. It's something I discovered by accident in my "try-again" piece... I wish I could slap myself in the face a couple of days ago via time travel.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    P.S. - That's quite a story--you had GPO for 3 years but hadn't cracked the manual even one page in where in bold type it warns users that the Mod Wheel is THE most important thing to know about it. tsk tsk tsk!!
    Ah yes, I'm very embarrassed about that. In college I'm a Computer Science major... so manuals is something I usually skip without thinking about them; however, here I found out that the manual was much more useful than I thought.

    Thanks for your input!
    One of the many 14 year old geeks/nerds/whatever-you-want-to-call-them.

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