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Topic: What should a good sampling library contain?

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  1. #1

    What should a good sampling library contain?

    I\'m very interested to hear both from samplelibrary developers (nick phoenix, scarbee, bardstown et all) and users what they feel a good library is about.
    I\'m intending to develop a library myself in the near future, so I\'m interested to hear both tips and opinions. As far as soundquality goes, that\'s covered; I think you\'ll find few new libraries today that suffer from abysmal recording techniques (unless it\'s intended).
    So guys, give me your opinions, tips, techniques, do\'s, don\'t \'s etc.
    Here\'s a few to get you started:
    -recording in natural ambience versus dry recording?
    -how many/how few multisamples?
    -how many velocities
    -what kind of midicontrol? (i.e what do you wish to control via midi)
    -in place recording versus straight recording (for orchestral instruments for example)
    -is an external midiprogram for extra control a good idea? (like GOS Maestro tools?)
    -what kind of playing styles?
    -mic\'ing techniques...

    My library will focus on certain instruments of the orchestral family, although it\'s far too early to discuss which
    Looking forward to your suggestions,

    Cheers,

    Joris de Man


  2. #2

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    A decent library is one that has been tested and tested and tested again and again by several users before it is issued on the market for a big price. It contains no bad notes or rogue attacks. It isn\'t rushed to the pressing plant because of a marketing deadline. It is well thought out and has demos that are produced way before the library is released...a sure sign that the developer and beta-testers know that it is a very functional library.

    Good Luck.

  3. #3

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    Best of luck.

    I would say that the demo should be a true representation of your product.

    Also, I would make sure your audio is perfectly clean before you sell it.
    (No sore thumb noises)

    Last, I would hope to get that \"Garritan\" level of support.

    My two cents.

    Ps. Make use of Aftertouch. It seems to be overlooked. I remember my old EMU Proteus with an Oboe patch... where the vibrato was controlled via aftertouch.

    It felt great.

    ------------------
    Francis Belardino
    fbelardino@audiovisionsonline.com

    Sound Designer
    Audio Visions, LTD.
    Wilmington, DE.

    www.audiovisionsonline.com

    [This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 12-12-2001).]

  4. #4

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    Aftertouch, yeah that would be great.

    Is there anyone on the list who has added aftertouch (capabilities) to existing libraries?

    Francis, I can image some filter/attenuation effects, but would an additional cross-fade also work? Often this results in some phasing/flanging, which you\'d rather avoid when you want to go for some subtle extra expression.

    Peter

  5. #5

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    Joris, the answers to your questions really depend on the instrument/instruments you\'re sampling

    The keys to geood libraries to me a playability, expressiveness, and control options for both.

    In fact sound quality is a second choice IMO. I tend to throw effects and EQ all over my samples to make them sound the way I want \"anyways\" high bit depths help for noise level. but not dynamic range IMO of the sampled instrument. IMO that can be adjusted in the instrument editor itself.

    The option of having both close micd and fare micd sounds is wonderful. Just like Realg Giga Drums.

    I\'m a fan of \"sample gloat\" *IF* it makes the library more playable, or gives the user more options. Having 16 dynamic levels of a sustaining instrument means caca to me if the library doesn\'t have expressive control of those instruments.

    Not sure what you mean by how many multisamples? do you mean sample range per note? then chromatically. This gives the end user the option of creating layered instruments via transposition. Or even better you can offer them as an option in the programming of the instrument.

    Extra Noise and effects and jsut subtle thigns taht canbe added to make the performance more realistic is ALWAYS a plus.

    giving the user the option to use the library as a \"building block\" of samples OR as a \"realtime playable\" instrument, like SCARBEE and GOS do. It gives the option for power users and tweakers to create the most realistic performance they can by using all the available options, while also not alienating non \"geek\" users.

    and external MIDI program is good if it offers options like Maestro tools. taht being options that make like \"easier\" for the MIDI musician, and offer up control options not featured in Giga, even better would be if all these MIDI tools could work together. Or if NEMESYS/TASCAM put a MIDI matrix/plug in feature into Giga, so that thirfd party developers could develope MIDI tools taht worked inside Giga. instead of outside.

    The rest of your questions depend on the instrument.


    PeterRoos-

    LFO\'s = CACA for vibrato/tremelo. Solo instruments develop the phasing you mentioned when crossfading from non vibrato samples to vibrato. Not so much in ensemble instruments. basically realistic vibrato is not achievable with and LFO/Crossfade

    If you do want to add vibrato/tremelo, via after touch, I would sugggest using the LFO, while it does sound like caca, you get more control of depth than you would via crossfade.

    If you have a breath controller you can get some ok results in samples, but for better results you need to map them to multiple CCs. Only gonna happen right now if you use logic. Not to mention you need to adjust the way each CC responds to the value received from the breath controller.

    there are a bunch of other options.

    I\'d love to go into more detail, but I\'d like to leave some surprises for when a certain someone releases the most innovative library available.


    Joris- push the envelope baby! If you can do something that hasnt been done before you\'ll have something onthe market that people will want. Just like GOS, and VotA. Dont think like a freaking EMU/AKAI sample, think like a musician!

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

  6. #6

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    I want to add that I believe this older EMU patch added LFO type vibrato via atertouch...

    But, I do think it would be cool to attach vibrato samples to aftertouch. If it could be done.

    Think about it. The vibrato begins when you feel it. Play and press!!

    PS. Noise in a sample is great but not when it\'s a low end hum or ring. ya know?

    Wus up, King?

    [This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 12-12-2001).]

    [This message has been edited by Francis Belardino (edited 12-12-2001).]

  7. #7

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    Hey, and not to start a flame...but, IMO the quailty of the sample IS first. It all starts with the best recording.

    IMO

  8. #8

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Francis Belardino:
    Hey, and not to start a flame...but, IMO the quailty of the sample IS first. It all starts with the best recording.

    IMO
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    I am in full agreement with you on this. Hi quality recording in order to achieve realism is the most important thing. For people who do not consider quality recording and realism to be important, they do not need a quality sampler. A synth would most likely fill their needs.

    Kip
    Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com



  9. #9

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bardstown Audio:

    I am in full agreement with you on this. Hi quality recording in order to achieve realism is the most important thing. For people who do not consider quality recording and realism to be important, they do not need a quality sampler. A synth would most likely fill their needs.

    Thank you. I mean that. It\'s nice to have someone agree with me now and again

    Kip
    Bardstown Audio www.bardstownaudio.com

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


  10. #10

    Re: What should a good sampling library contain?

    You guys are getting me all wrong. quality is important. Having 88.2k samples is a better starting point of RECORDING of course.

    However. If the samples dont have any character whats the use?

    and no I wouldn\'t be better off with a synth module.

    The thing is, if the end library isn\'t programmed all that well. I probably WOULD prefer a sound module.

    All the bit depth and sample rate in the world wont make the library more playable and expressive in character. You guys may misunderstand what I stated above....maybe not. I\'m not saying to downsample everything and compress it like a freaking sound module (I know that wasn\'t being directed at me, but it was a bit in the extreme Kip ). What I\'m saying is that if you dont have the best mics and or the best mixer/preamps compressors etc. You can still have a shot at making a great library. Of course if you have a tascam 4 track and a soundblaster live....well... Put it up for free

    I still think that one can make GREAT libraries with 16 bit gear.

    Glorified sample gloat with high bit depth and sample rate is not what I\'d like to see. I LOVE huge libraries. but man, having them playback and still sound horribly MIDI is not fun.

    CHARACTER first. IMO

    This is the reason so many people still prefer their \"older\" sounds. to new ones.

    Again if you can give the end user alot of control, to make realistic performances AS WELL AS make general playback instruments.

    In the end what I\'m trying to say is, yes the starting point IS GOOD SAMPLES, but that does NOT mean necessarily, top of the line GEAR. If you believe that gear is the most important factor then you probably should be designing sounds for GM sound modules because in the end, with no character, it will sound like a better GM module anyway.

    ------------------
    Really...I am an Idiot

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