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Topic: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

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  1. #1
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    Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    New York (April 17, 2009)--Founders of The Pirate Bay, arguably the most used peer-to-peer bit torrent site on the internet, were found guilty in a Swedish court Friday of illegally making copyrighted files available on the net.

    The high-profile case pitted site founders Peter Sunde, Gottfrid Svartholm Warg, Fredrik Neij, and Carl Lundström against 17 media companies, including Warner Bros. Entertainment, MGM Pictures, Columbia Pictures Industries, Twentieth Century Fox Film, Sony BMG, Universal, EMI, Blizzard Entertainment, Sierra Entertainment, and Activision. As a result of Judge Tomas Norström's ruling, the four men are sentenced to jail for a year, and must also pay 30 million Swedish kronor ($3.6 million)--reportedly an "extreme" amount for a Swedish case--to the media companies. Peer to peer file sharing via technologies like Bit Torrent has financially gutted the music, film and software industries in recent years.

    The Pirate Bay, which has antagonized Hollywood and the major music labels in the past with sarcastic commentary about their attempts to shut the site down, posted a response: "So, the dice courts judgment is here. It was lol to read and hear, crazy verdict. But as in all good movies, the heroes lose in the beginning but have an epic victory in the end anyhow. That's the only thing hollywood ever taught us." Unsurprisingly, the defendants have declared they will appeal the verdict, and some predict the case will eventually head to Sweden's Supreme Court.

    The 13-day trial centered around the argument that the website facilitated the illegal file sharing of 33 copyrighted files, although no files are actually stored on the site. Instead, it acts as a search engine, finding torrents that are available for file sharing. It also provides a "tracker," which ensures a steady link between file sharers.

    According to CNet, Twentieth Century Fox ($1.3 million), Columbia Pictures ($504,000) and Warner Bros. ($300,000) will reap the largest portions of the Pirate Bay payout.



  2. #2

    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    Their smartass comments after their convictions won't endear them to anyone.

    A thief is a thief is a thief.
    Larry G. Alexander
    www.alexandermusic.com

  3. #3
    Senior Member rwayland's Avatar
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    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry G. Alexander View Post
    Their smartass comments after their convictions won't endear them to anyone.

    A thief is a thief is a thief.
    Quite true!!

    And that also includes some high profile corporate beings!

    Richard

  4. #4
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    It's kinda weird that they see themselves as heroes, but i guess not too unusual, everything seems to be upside-down these days.

  5. #5

    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    Everytime something like this comes up in the news, and into this forum we get a few members going "THIEF! THIEF! CATCH THEM!" and so on...

    http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/1...Bay-VPN-101820

    It does seem that the general public is very much in favour of Pirate bay and they are actually eager to PAY for pirate bay (considering that 113,000 are mostly from Sweden).

    Piracy is not a simple matter as "thief" and as some would like to think. Nor of course it's ideal for smartass comments and mocking after having been sentenced a year in jail and $3,6m penalties!

    Now here's two questions for anyone in here, because I'm geniounly curious about this:

    1. In the UK you pay, what is called, a TV license. Around $300 per year (which pressumibly goes to the BBC). Now this license gives you the right to watch the tv, cable, normal, satelite, INTERNET anything. So, am I in legal ground to watch streaming media of the Internet? I can watch BBC live on the net, that's for sure, but... can I watch... tv-links for example? Or streaming contents from pirate bay (Not torrents, since torrents include SAVING in your hard drive, and sharing at the same time).

    2. Everytime we click on youtube, we get various videos to watch. One of the most popular game in forums is posting youtube "goodness", and links to various groups, video clips, etc, etc. Is this legal? On the one hand I doubt there's any royalties to be had, and at the same time we do see Warner, Sony, etc to have their own youtube channels and feeding them continuously. Groups don't mind, companies don't seem to mind. The Music TV channels do mind, indeed and they have fought to keep out contents which were taken FROM their channels (for example recording an MTV clip and then posting it in youtube), but other than that... no one else has fought with youtube, as far as I know. So is it legal to watch... a beatles video clip in youtube? Or not?

    And no, I'm not being a smartarse my self, just trying to see through 2 grey points that I've been wondering for quite some time, and also provide some further food for thought to all those who are the first to cast the stone.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Leaf's Avatar
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    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    Shhhhhhhh, don't let our congress people hear, they'll start charging us another three-hundred bucks.

  7. #7
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    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    There is quite a bit of copyright infringement on YouTube. We hosted a winter drumline and colorguard competition at my son's high school a couple months ago. No one was allowed to video tape at the competition unless they had a pass. The passes were highly controlled and it was the responsibility of the band director to make sure the videos were only used for critiques of the performance.

    One of the organizers was telling me why they are strict on the video taping policy. They had 36 schools that were busted for videos that were uploaded to YouTube. Some of the schools had to pay up to $120,000 in fines for the infringements.

    I was filming the official final performances that were for sale on the WGI site. WGI was in charge of clearing the copyrights for these performances.

    Jim

  8. #8

    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    Quote Originally Posted by nikolas View Post
    Everytime something like this comes up in the news, and into this forum we get a few members going "THIEF! THIEF! CATCH THEM!" and so on...

    http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/1...Bay-VPN-101820

    It does seem that the general public is very much in favour of Pirate bay and they are actually eager to PAY for pirate bay (considering that 113,000 are mostly from Sweden).

    Piracy is not a simple matter as "thief" and as some would like to think. Nor of course it's ideal for smartass comments and mocking after having been sentenced a year in jail and $3,6m penalties!

    Now here's two questions for anyone in here, because I'm geniounly curious about this:

    1. In the UK you pay, what is called, a TV license. Around $300 per year (which pressumibly goes to the BBC). Now this license gives you the right to watch the tv, cable, normal, satelite, INTERNET anything. So, am I in legal ground to watch streaming media of the Internet? I can watch BBC live on the net, that's for sure, but... can I watch... tv-links for example? Or streaming contents from pirate bay (Not torrents, since torrents include SAVING in your hard drive, and sharing at the same time).

    2. Everytime we click on youtube, we get various videos to watch. One of the most popular game in forums is posting youtube "goodness", and links to various groups, video clips, etc, etc. Is this legal? On the one hand I doubt there's any royalties to be had, and at the same time we do see Warner, Sony, etc to have their own youtube channels and feeding them continuously. Groups don't mind, companies don't seem to mind. The Music TV channels do mind, indeed and they have fought to keep out contents which were taken FROM their channels (for example recording an MTV clip and then posting it in youtube), but other than that... no one else has fought with youtube, as far as I know. So is it legal to watch... a beatles video clip in youtube? Or not?

    And no, I'm not being a smartarse my self, just trying to see through 2 grey points that I've been wondering for quite some time, and also provide some further food for thought to all those who are the first to cast the stone.
    I think you hit on some interesting points, Ben. In my mind it comes down to what the intent the owner of the content has. If the owner of the content gives permission for a web site to stream or provide downloads for their music/tv show/movie/etc. then there should be no problem.

    The problem with the Pirate Bay (as it's name suggests) is that media has been pirated and then made available to the masses. No permission has been acquired for sharing or making access to the content. Therefore the content has been illegally distributed, aka stolen.

    We've been through the whole software stealing debate before and the only thing that was made clear is that no one was going to change their opinion on the topic. I think the litmus test is simple. Pretend you (not meaning you personally, but in a general sense) are the person who invested in creating either software, a movie, music, or whatever. You find out that thousands of people have been downloading your content via Pirate Bay torrents. How would you feel? That is how these content owners feel. I know that I would be angry if I were losing revenue due to piracy. Who wouldn't?

    The Pirate Bay was a tool that provided a means of abuse more than anything else. People downloaded via Pirate Bay torrents millions of dollars worth of products that they should have paid for. That is clear cut stealing in my mind.

    I am pretty sure I'll get blasted for calling it stealing, so I will pre-preemptively ask two questions those who disagree with me can ask themselves:

    1)How many people would feel comfortable using a Garritan product they had downloaded via the Pirate Bay and thus never paid for it?

    2)How many of you plan on downloading GPO 4 via a torrent instead of paying the fee Gary charges for his software?

    -Kevin
    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  9. #9

    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    Haydn: A very interesting story indeed. Thanks for sharing. I can see the whole jumbled situation about this. I can also imagine small schoolboys/girls wanting to put the material up on youtube, for sharing and getting 'busted' on it... Complicated stuff, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by LFO View Post
    I think you hit on some interesting points, Ben.
    A nice reply, but I'm not Ben!

    In my mind it comes down to what the intent the owner of the content has. If the owner of the content gives permission for a web site to stream or provide downloads for their music/tv show/movie/etc. then there should be no problem.
    Exactly! If my assumptions are right, this means that current laws are inadequete.

    I do recall a huge debate on another forum, about mp3s. The act of making an mp3 from a CD you legally own, in order to use it in your ipod (for example) is in fact illegal! So I did contact a record company, of classical music, and asked them straight away: "What is their position to the matter, and ultimately can I take Prokofiev and make it into an mp3 for use in my mp3 player?". The reply was that "Officially it is illega, but the laws in the UK are changing, and goverment is looking for ways to accomodate the new technologies. Don't worry because we're not in the habbit of chassing customers, especially people who HAVE PAID and go through the trouble of e-mailing.". That's a pretty straight and nice reply for me. But still laws are not ready for such situations.

    The problem with the Pirate Bay (as it's name suggests) is that media has been pirated and then made available to the masses. No permission has been acquired for sharing or making access to the content. Therefore the content has been illegally distributed, aka stolen.
    Yes, which is where all the "game" in courts was beeng played: PB did not host anything, only put huge tags, huge boards "GO THERE! YOU'LL GET THE X MOVIE, OR THE Y MOVIE, (and btw) ALSO THE STRAD".

    We've been through the whole software stealing debate before and the only thing that was made clear is that no one was going to change their opinion on the topic. I think the litmus test is simple. Pretend you (not meaning you personally, but in a general sense) are the person who invested in creating either software, a movie, music, or whatever. You find out that thousands of people have been downloading your content via Pirate Bay torrents. How would you feel? That is how these content owners feel. I know that I would be angry if I were losing revenue due to piracy. Who wouldn't?
    Of course. I've had scores taken and sold, when I was giving them away for free and got mad to no end (even made a thread here). I certainly understand what we're talking about and am "empathic".

    The Pirate Bay was a tool that provided a means of abuse more than anything else. People downloaded via Pirate Bay torrents millions of dollars worth of products that they should have paid for. That is clear cut stealing in my mind.
    Let's not argue over words and definitions, it certainly is wrong if used in such a way.

    Just lets keep in mind that piracy has brought changed to the industry which are not exactly bad (music industry I mean, for example the release of Albums for free, by NIN and Radiohead, amongs others as well as the rise of the Internet musician, through youtube and myspace). And in the software part it also put a large base stone on the development of open source programs,which I think is a very fit reply to combating piracy: Why steal MS Office when there's open office out there? Why steal Cubase/Logic/etc when there's Reaper out there? Etc...

    I am pretty sure I'll get blasted for calling it stealing, so I will pre-preemptively ask two questions those who disagree with me can ask themselves:
    I hope I didn't blast you at any point!

    1)How many people would feel comfortable using a Garritan product they had downloaded via the Pirate Bay and thus never paid for it?
    When? Taking me for example, I can say that experience and knowledge, more than age, play a vital part in replying this question.

    I don't feel comfortable using anything cracked. I have only legit software, or trial versions, or open source programs in my computer and especially my music computer is off the Internet and I'm being very careful to what I put in.

    The fact that I'm talking with Gary, as I'm talking with Doug and Nick from EW, and Tony from Toontrack, and Vincent from ProjectSAM and Peter and Niclas and Greg and so many other people who make this, makes me feel even more unease if I was to do such a thing.

    But guilt would have taken its toll, I think.

    2)How many of you plan on downloading GPO 4 via a torrent instead of paying the fee Gary charges for his software?
    I'm not planning no such thing. By no means and for no reason. Absolutely no reason. And I'm actually actively advising my students away from piracy here in Greece! It's the best I can do: education.

  10. #10

    Re: Legal News: Pirate BayTrial -The Official Verdict - Guilty

    I reckon 6 months and another website the equivalent of pirate bay will pop up. Just like with magesy. There is another website now that does the same thing, just google 'magesy alternative'. They really annoy me as i see them 'giving away' large libraries such as those from EW whereas I chose to pay for them. Which is why im broke lol

    Id never use a pirated Garritan product - theres no need. Garritan's products are some of the most reasonably priced (in my head) yet excellent quality product on the market and I want Garritan and EW and the other companies to keep going.

    I know that companies such as EW do make a LOT of money....look at their recent studio refurbishment (WOW!), and there is an argument that they could sell their products even cheaper, but i believe that the most recent EW libraries have cost about a million to produce, and they have to keep running as a company. Plus they are always putting on sales and offers, which is very generous.

    To me pirating sound libraries and music applications is much worse than pirating films and music (both are bad - but id consider the former a greater crime). I think its interesting that big companies such as microsoft, adobe and apple havent taken websites like magesy to court, as their expensive software is easily available illegally too. Perhaps it actually helps them in some ways?

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