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Topic: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

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  1. #1

    Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controller

    Has anyone used CHH Vol. 1.5 with a windcontroller? I'd love to see any videos.

  2. #2

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    I too would be interested to hear about success in doing this. I have tried to use the single instrument CHH soprano sax with an Akai EWI USB and from my various experiments, which are admittedly far from complete, I don't think it is an easy thing to do. The CHH library is nicely tuned to take keyboard data and turn it into a wind instrument sound, but it seems that the tricks that make it good at keyboard-to-wind go in the opposite direction of getting a good wind controller-to-wind sound. I have given up on getting this to work as another developer has what I consider to be a far superior solution for soprano, alto, tenor and baritone saxes controlled via a wind controller. Still, I would be interested in learning about any way to improve the situation with a wind controller and CHH.
    Best regards,

    Little Red King
    http://luridcactus.com/MusicPage.html

  3. #3

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    I have tested CHH quite intensively with my Akai EWI USB. I was lucky enough to be a betatester for the library and to be in close contact to Chris.
    The CHH 2 (which are sections) work very well with the windcontroller. You can use a velocity fade mode and assign this to the cc#2 which gives you a nice control over the dynamics just as it should be.

    The problem comes with Solo instruments (which is CHH 1.5) as you hear a slight but noticeable phasing when trying to control the different dynamic levels (which are all distinct samples) using a continuous controller (such as cc#2). This is not a problem of the CHH alone but of basically all multisample libraries and can´t be solved easily. Only samplemodelling have an approach to avoid this effect but you have to treat samples quite extensively which can lead to a rather sterile sound (thjough this problem can be overcome by modulating the sound with controllers as well as adding randomness to the sound).
    The other approach is a virtual model (like Wallender´s brass instruments) where the instruments also don´t suffer from this phasing problem.

    Chris is aware of this problem and will try to create a special windcontroller patch but this will take some time as he is currently also finalising the CHH 3 instruments.

    As I mentioned earlier the section brasses are great with breath controllers as you can´t hear the phasing artefact with these instruments. And once again: the problem I mentioned is not CHH 1.5 specific. All sample libraries have more or less the same dilemma. If you use multisamples it´s not a piece of cake to crodssfade between them (which is what makes the dynamic control of a sustained sound).

    Workaround: As the CHH have an excellent otption to route controllers, you could route cc#2 to volume (cc#7) and control the volume with the breath controller. You have to use a reverb free patch and apply the reverb AFTER the volume control. It is not perfect as it only gives control over volume rather than timbre AND volume but it doesn´t sound bad.

    Hope this helped
    Best regards
    Raindog

  4. #4

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    Quote Originally Posted by Raindog View Post
    The problem comes with Solo instruments (which is CHH 1.5) as you hear a slight but noticeable phasing when trying to control the different dynamic levels (which are all distinct samples) using a continuous controller (such as cc#2). ...This is not a problem of the CHH alone but of basically all multisample libraries and can´t be solved easily. Only samplemodelling have an approach to avoid this effect but you have to treat samples quite extensively which can lead to a rather sterile sound (thjough this problem can be overcome by modulating the sound with controllers as well as adding randomness to the sound).
    Yeah, the samplemodeling instruments are real virtual instruments and one has to learn how to play them. But if you can, then you get the best results aviable now on the market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raindog View Post
    Chris is aware of this problem and will try to create a special windcontroller patch but this will take some time as he is currently also finalising the CHH 3 instruments. ...

    Raindog
    And this means a lot of work and first goooood understanding of physics.
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  5. #5

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    Quote Originally Posted by germancomponist View Post
    Yeah, the samplemodeling instruments are real virtual instruments and one has to lear how to play it.


    And this means a lot of work and understanding of physics.
    And it´s a different CONCEPT. I love the samplemodelling stuff but there are some things you can´t do with them that you can do with CHH.
    They are hard to beat in terms of playability though especially when using a windcontroller.
    Raindog

  6. #6

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    so what are the best libraries for wind controllers. I hear Mr Sax T and The Trumpet have been optimized for wind controllers. The new Akai usb controller had some impressive sounds. I felt there was more in there than what the demos show. I still think a wind controller could be the best controller and the market would open up if more companies would make a library for wind controllers like Garritan is doing

    It would be great if some of the people that are using them professionally would share what libraries they are using. Some patches would be great but even knowing which ones are wind controller friendly would help

  7. #7

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff4h View Post
    so what are the best libraries for wind controllers.
    Not a sample library, but WIVI is designed to work with breath and wind controllers.

  8. #8

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    Quote Originally Posted by Raindog View Post
    And it´s a different CONCEPT. I love the samplemodelling stuff but there are some things you can´t do with them that you can do with CHH. ...

    Oops, I didn`t know this. Can you tell me these some things?

    Best,

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  9. #9

    Re: Chris Hein Horns w/ Wind controoler

    Quote Originally Posted by germancomponist View Post
    Oops, I didn`t know this. Can you tell me these some things?

    Best,

    Gunther
    Hi Günther,
    the major reason to use multisample libraries is the amount of articulations which is very impressive with CHH. Slides, doits etc. are there and easily accessible. The other advantage of genuine (and not extensively treated) samples is that they are less static and have more "life". When playing Mr.TSax right out of the box I was rather disappointed as it sounded very liveless compared to the CHH sax. With the samplemodelling instruments a wind- or breathcontroller is almost a must because with the expression capabilities of a windcontroller they begin to live and shine.
    If you use a keyboard I would rather go for multisample libraries like CHH with lots of different keyswitched articulations.

    CURRENTLY (and I hope this will change) there are only 2 windcontroller-ready libraries: Mr.TSax/The Trumpet from Samplemodelling and all Wallander instruments. The included sounds that come with the Akai USB (the sounds are from Garritan) are not bad but nothing to tell home about.

    BTW: There is a good source for windcontroller users(www.patchmanmusic.com). Patchman provide sounds for several synths. I bought sounds for my old Roland JV1080 and they don´t sound bad at all when played with a windcontroller.

    Best regards
    Raindog

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