# Topic: OT Expanding Universe

1. ## OT Expanding Universe

This is a question that has bothered me for years and since there are some smart people here, maybe someone can explain it to me.

They say that the universe is expanding. I have read and studied the evidence and I have to agree that most of the stars and galaxies are moving away from us and therefore the visible universe is getting larger.

They say that the universe is expanding faster today than it was yesterday. That is where I have a problem.

The closer galaxies are not moving as fast away from us as the ones farther away from us.

We see the light from galaxies that are the farthest away from us is more red shifted than the galaxies closer to us. This means that the galaxies farther away were moving faster long ago than the galaxies closer to us when we see that light.

Say we pick a galaxy that is 10 billion light years away. 10 billion years ago when that light left that galaxy, it was red shifted a lot. If we pick a galaxy that is 5 billion light years away, it is not as red shifted. So the farther we go back in time, the faster things are (were) moving. But more importantly, if we don't go back as far in time, galaxies are not moving away from us as fast.

To me that makes a strong case for the expansion to be slowing down, not speeding up.

Since this is a music forum,I should explain what this has to do with music. If the Universe is actually slowing down in its expansion, then we have more time to compose than if the universe is accelerating. This could make a difference of hundreds of billions of years for me to compose more music.

So you can see why I am so concerned over this matter.

EDIT:This also means we may not have to worry if Gary gets out GPOA as fast as he wants.

Ron

2. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

Originally Posted by rolifer
EDIT:This also means we may not have to worry if Gary gets out GPOA as fast as he wants.
I think Gary's only relying on the end of this world coming first. He probably figures noone will bug him after that.

3. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

Science is a lot of guess-work. The theory of expansion is based upon the perception that stars are "red-shifted", but looking through a universe filled with minute amounts of gasses makes me wonder if we can accurately say effect X is caused by driver Y.

The Milkey Way and Andromeda galaxies are moving towards each other....so much for the expansion theory?

I'm not anti-science, but there is a LOT of speculation over causal factors in the universe because scientists simply do not know why much of the universe works the way it does. Obviously, the answer is to release GPOA to eliminate that variabe from the equation.

4. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

Another question, slightly related. How can we picture our Galaxy while we are part of it? We only can look at other Galaxies. A fish never can picture the sea he is swimming in. And who tells you that the Galaxies are moving faster? Maybe our Galaxy is moving faster (or slower) towards the others.

Raymond

5. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

The heart of your question, Ron, is related to the dark matter that scientists have been trying to discover. There is an article in the April 2009 "Scientific American" which discusses exactly what you have put forth in your question. Basically, it says that earth does occupy an area of space (a bubble) that is largely devoid of a large portion of matter. Other areas of the universe especially the distant universe is more packed with matter than our immediate area. This causes the different rates of expansion to seem out of skew with what we observe in our local area.

I have not explained this well but get a copy of the issue and you will probably get a better perspective from the diagrams they use.

(I think they show in the universe where Gary has already test marketed GPOA! )

6. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

I don't think it's about comparing the redshift of a farther away galaxy to a closer one, it's about comparing the redshift of a galaxy to itself at a different time. Maybe? I have no idea.

7. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

Check out this Wikipedia article which gives a good description of how redshifts work: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redshif...nsion_of_space

What we see locally in the galaxy such as the Andromeda Galaxy moving towards is not part of the normal expansion of space. Galaxies have a tendency to cluster together. The Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy are part of the same local cluster so their gravity attracts each other. In another few billion years our galaxy and the Androdema galaxy are going to collide and will probably become one bigger galaxy at that point.

Jim

8. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

i don't think they know why things are accelerating away from one another. Its believed that gravity has a repelling feature that is not understood yet.

on another note, there are scientists who are actually studying how to create a universe!?!?! its the multiverse theory - that there are actually multiple universes and big bangs are constantly happening. the craziest part is that we can never see them seeing as a universe creates its own space. our universe might be some fourth graders experiment from another universe!!!

9. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

Twenty years ago, every astrophysicist "knew" that the rate of expansion of our universe was decreasing over time. Now every astrophysicist "knows" that the rate of expansion is not decreasing and is likely increasing.

Why? Well, it is based upon observations made on supernova (exploding starts) seen in distant galaxies. Measurements of the distance of these galaxies based upon the brightness of these supernova explosions yielded information on the distances that prevailed upon the astrophysiciists to think that the galaxies were receeding faster than previously thought. These supernova surveys were done very carefully and by more than one investigating team and the results seem well established. And these findings blew apart the previous notion that the universe was slowing down.

Given the idea that gravity, as a whole, should in fact slow down the expansion of the universe, scientists needed to explain why the expansion should speed up. Enter the concept of "dark energy." (Not to be confused with "dark matter" a whole different thing altogether.) Dark energy, supposedly acts to repel matter rather than attract matter.

And interestingly, Albert Einstein considered the concept of a "cosmologic constant" and fudge factor in certain equations that better explained astrophysics as was known in the 1930's. Einstein considered his musing on the existance of a "cosmologic constant" as the biggest blunder of his career. Most astrophysicist now think that he was probably correct all along.

In my opinion, not being an astrophysicist but having a working knowledge of physics and astronomy, I wonder if it is just too difficult to make such accurate measurements to draw these conclusions..... and I muse that these speculating scientists are making theories based upon observations that are not as accurate as they think. But then again, perhaps the evidence is more compelling that I think. (There are a minority of scientists with very different views on this, but they are a very silent minority.)

It is an exciting area and in time there will be more and more measurements and interpretations.

For us, perhaps it just inspiration for our next musical work.... "exapnding universe"

David

10. ## Re: OT Expanding Universe

I have read a lot of the theories and as Rich said, dark matter is in a lot ofthem. This right off is a bad assumption based on Occam's Razor. How can these guys try to explain a phenonomem with Dark Matter, when no one knows what Dark Matter is, or even if it exists?

Another theory states that the space between the galaxies is growing. If Gravity warps space more than we realize, then after a galaxy has passed thru a given space and no longer exerts its energy upon that space, then perhaps that space can spring back and give an outside observer the appearence of getting bigger.

Or, what our eyes and math tells us is actually the truth. That the galaxies are actually slowing down and we are headed for the big crunch.

Ron

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