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Topic: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

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  1. #1

    Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Hi,
    Does anyone know why Symphobia is so expensive (ridiculously expensive) and whether it is possible to get similar results with the GPO ensembles?

    Thanks.

  2. #2

    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Symphobis has recordings where the complete orchestra is recorded simultaneously, and this makes the big different. Also this recordings are recorded with the best equipment that is aviable now.

    But, with GPO you can built very cool ensembles. Sure, it is a lot of work.

    And the "tuning" is a first point here, because a real orchestra never only plays with our 12 tones... .

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  3. #3

    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    How is this "not playing only 12 notes" implemented in Symphobia? You actually play with your midi controller which does have only 12 notes/octave.

  4. #4

    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Just to point out, Symphobia isn't ridiculously expensive. Sure, it's a lot of money, but if you check any other products that are specialized or very good at certain thing (like where for example Symphobia sounds really cinematic), it costs money. If you check out Sonivox Symphonic Strings, it costs $995. And Garritan Orchestral Strings 1 (the very first version that was strings-only) was released with the following (PLEASE NOTICE, THE FOLLOWING IS FROM 2001):

    "The regular price for Garritan Orchestral Strings is $1,399 (U.S.), but for a short period its special introductory price will be $999. The library is available for purchase online."

    I don't know, but I think Garritan Orchestral Strings 2 will be also much more than GPO, since in addition to the string sections with amazingly many articulations, it also includes solo strings in the same package with even more details and realism than strings in GPO. This is because it's a specialized and advanced string-package, in comparison to GPO that offers the whole orchestra in a very well programmed and easy-to-use package, but making it sound like some library that's specialized into a specific area and includes gigabytes of more samples, will surely require much more work. And I think Garritan Orchestral Strings 2 is also recorded with the best equipment possible so this will also show.

    This being said, GPO is a really good basic palette of orchestral instruments to start with. It will also very shortly be updated to use the new ARIA player, which will enchance the sound quite much and there are also new brass samples from Project Sam Brass (the creators of Symphobia). After getting GPO, you can keep your eye on Garritan Orchestral Strings 2 and when it comes out and you feel like needing to enchance your string-sections, I'm sure it's worth the money!

  5. #5
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    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by karvasika View Post
    "The regular price for Garritan Orchestral Strings is $1,399 (U.S.), but for a short period its special introductory price will be $999. The library is available for purchase online."
    Eight years ago, the Miroslav string library was $1,599 for one CD-ROM. KH Strings, containing only several CDs, was $995. GOS was the first super library and came out with 16 (later 20 CDROMS) for $999. At the time it was a bargain.

    Although the suggested retail price of GOS was $1,399, the introductory price of $999 stuck and never exceeded that price. The price was lowered and lowered over the years to eventually $200 before it was discontinued.

    At the time it was a bargain. But things change over time, technologies tend to improve and costs decrease.

    Where do you think a string library should be priced today? Back to where they were in 2001? Or should prices reach even lower levels than they are today?

    Gary

  6. #6

    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Eight years ago <snip>
    No way... it's been 8 years???

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    At the time it was a bargain.
    I don't want to tell you how to run your business (well, nah) but I would express some concern over the whole concept of "bargain." I'm not sure that's the best way to describe a product.

    I think it is fair to suggest that (a) GOS was priced competitively with similar libraries and (b) GOS provided all the 'features' one had come to expect and then added to that.

    As a consumer it would be my job to decide whether or not the product met my requirements and my budget.

    Sorry if this seems a little off-kilter, but I just had an insane and bizarre debate with a prospect over what constituted a bargain... and I'm just really tired of people putting price first and everything else second.

    For the record, I consider my investment in GOS to be a good one. The tool set is not easy to use, and I never quite reached the point of mastery I would have liked to before Tascam made the point moot<G>!

    Further, I think that GPO still represents the most useful/usable library out there. No, it doesn't cover every instrument or articulation - but in a way that's one of the features.

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    But things change over time, technologies tend to improve and costs decrease.
    I believe that is an understatement! And just out of curiosity, did you see things reaching this stage in 2009 back when you released GOS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Where do you think a string library should be priced today? Back to where they were in 2001? Or should prices reach even lower levels than they are today?
    As a consumer I'd say $1! As an enlightened consumer I'd say that prices should be set such that the business can compete, but that I'd expect technology to make it possible for prices to continue a slow but steady decrease.

    That does not mean I wouldn't spend more for a library that met my needs exactly, but since I'm not sure exactly what the means...
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  7. #7
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    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by wst3ae View Post
    No way... it's been 8 years???
    Time flies, doesn't it? In software 8 years can be an eternity.

    Quote Originally Posted by wst3ae View Post
    I don't want to tell you how to run your business (well, nah) but I would express some concern over the whole concept of "bargain." I'm not sure that's the best way to describe a product.
    A bargain is relative to the times and competition. I remember my first 1GB hard drive cost $1,500. Now you can get a terabyte drive under $100.

    When GOS first came out it was sold incredibly well. Beyond our wildest expectations. One of the comments customers gave was that it was a bargain compared to what was available. ($50/disc compared to $1,595 per disc). I remember a large distributor wanted an exclusive to carry GOS. They wanted the price set at $3,000 and thought we were nuts pricing GOS so low initially. This sharp disagreement cost us that distributorship (which I am glad for).

    I still thought prices were too high in the sampling industry. Why should sampling only be for the well-healed?

    As a result we decided to bring orchestral sampling to all musicians. GPO was made for this purpose. At a few hundred dollars, this was a better 'bargain' (Miroslav was $3500, EW was $3k and Vienna upwards of 10K at the time).

    Quote Originally Posted by wst3ae View Post
    And just out of curiosity, did you see things reaching this stage in 2009 back when you released GOS?
    Some things I predicted and some things I did not. I knew Moore's Law would make computers faster and things would gravitate towards less expensive. And some things I though would happen never materialized. As one of the very first Giga developers back then, no way did I see that we would own Giga someday.

    The rate of change seems to be accelerating now and the next eight years will be fascinating and there will be some game changers undoubtedly.

    Best,

    Gary

  8. #8

    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Time flies, doesn't it? In software 8 years can be an eternity.
    Indeed... and it just keeps accelerating.

    Once upon a time the goal for DAW software was the ability to edit audio and MIDI together... and for a long time no one thought it possible. Take any platform (Sonar, PT, DP) and look at the feature list from the year 2000. Amazing stuff!

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan
    Bargain is relative to the times and competition. I remember my first 1GB hard drive cost $1,500. Now you can get a terabyte drive under $100. <snippity>
    I'm not trying to be argumentative - really (and I'll let it drop after this) - but it is the word bargain and the way it is used that concerns me. I have no doubt that GOS represented a tremendous value, even when it was finally retired. And GPO changed the people viewed sample libraries!

    I am all for the democratization of music production. I've been dreaming of the day since 1975, when I recorded my first "string section" using an ARP 2600 and a TON of tracks<G>!

    What's bothering me is the commodity mind-set. If you frequent any recording related forums you'll see questions like "what's the best microphone for under $100?", which in and of itself is a perfectly reasonable question.

    The problem lies somewhere beneath the surface. People expect to purchase a microphone for $100 and get the same results that Alan Parsons got when he recorded "Dark Side of the Moon" - and that's a pretty unrealistic expectation.

    In addition to some really good equipment Mr. Parsons had the advantages of:
    1) first rate material
    2) first rate players
    3) a first rate space
    4) a deep knowledge of where to put a microphone
    5) a deep love of the process.

    Take away any of those elements and it really does not matter what you spend on your gear!

    People have to learn. I am fortunate... when I was a teenager there were three (count them three) 8 track recording studios in my home town. All three were more than willing to let me sweep the floors, make coffee, solder patchbays, and whatever as the price of admission to hang out. I learned from them! And I had the opportunity to use equipment that I would later lust after (I still want to add a pair of 1176s and a pair of 160s to my rack!)

    In the ensuing years I worked in a lot of different studios, and I had access to a lot of different gear. When the time came to build my studio I had no problem selecting equipment (well, I had the challenge of paying for it, but at least I knew what I wanted.)

    My point - yeah, I really do have one - is that while I do appreciate your efforts to make great sample libraries available to one and all, and I anxiously await GPO with Aria and GOS2 or whatever it's going to be called, I'd hate to see you focus on price or bargain-ness (if that's a word.)

    GPO and JABB are already priced quite reasonably, so if you really want to increase the bargain quotient just make them better<G>!

    Take care,

    Bill
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  9. #9
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    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by wst3ae View Post
    My point - yeah, I really do have one - is that while I do appreciate your efforts to make great sample libraries available to one and all, and I anxiously await GPO with Aria and GOS2 or whatever it's going to be called, I'd hate to see you focus on price or bargain-ness (if that's a word.)

    GPO and JABB are already priced quite reasonably, so if you really want to increase the bargain quotient just make them better<G>!
    Why not focus on both - bargain-ness and quality. Making them both more affordable and better at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    Best,

    Gary

  10. #10

    Re: Symphobia - GPO Ensemble Comparison

    Quote Originally Posted by Garritan View Post
    Why not focus on both - bargain-ness and quality. Making them both more affordable and better at the same time. The two are not mutually exclusive.
    I know, I promised to let it go...

    No, quality and bargain-ess are not mutually exclusive, but you yourself changed that to affordable and better... so I guess you do understand my point, even if I am not making it well.

    It isn't that I think being a bargain is necessarily bad- it is playing into the bargain/commodity mindset that scares me. What's wrong with swinging for the fences?

    Take care,

    Bill
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

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