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Topic: Sounds Like Midi!

  1. #1

    Sounds Like Midi!


    A few years back i tried Garritan before it was added to Kontakt, not sure wich version but i think it was libraries from 2004. Is it just me, or did the instruments sound midi like?

    When i listen to the examples on Garritan and from Youtube, some of them sound realisic while others midi like.

    So i am wondering if there have been added new sounds since then?

  2. #2

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    Hello Galvetus,
    I don't think the issue is the sounds, it is the hands that craft them. Some people spend more time massaging their MIDI data to get as realistic as possible, others don't. There is no right or wrong, there just is. With a little effort GPO can sound good, with more effort it can sound great!

    Regarding sounds, a new version of GPO, GPO4, will be released sometime in the near future. SAM brass is being added to the library and I think you will like the resulting brass. There are also enhancements to strings coming that will be most welcome. GPO4 will be out pretty soon, but no solid date has been determined. It will be out when it is ready. It will be worth the wait!

    Hope this helps,

    We are the music makers, we are the dreamers of dreams …
    24" 2.4 Ghz iMac, OSX 10.4.10, MOTU 828 MKII, 2 Glyph 250 Gig external drives, Logic 9, Finale 2008 GPO, JABB, Strad, Gro, Reason 4, EWQL Storm Drum, Adrenaline, Symphonic Choirs, SO Gold,All Arturia Synths, Many NI Synths, Spectrasonics Synths, KH Strings, VEPro on a Windows 7 4x 2.8 Ghz 12 gig of RAM

  3. #3

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    What is SAM brass?


  4. #4

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond62 View Post
    What is SAM brass?


    Look here
    for more info on SAM brass. I'm certain GPO4 won't have all of the samples in Project Sam's full offerings, but hopefully GPO4 will have enough to cover what GPO3 had in terms of mutes, etc. I'm really excited about this and is more than worth the upgrade to me.

    Steve Winkler

  5. #5

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    The sort of reverb used can also have a big effect on the final sound.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  6. #6

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    Thanks very much for the replays.

    I would agree that if you spend enough time twiking you will get good sound, but at the same time i think it should be good right out of the box. This is real instruments after all, so they should sound realistic.

    Sounds great, ProjectSam has some great sounds from what the audio examples show. Will the price be the same?

  7. #7

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    Quote Originally Posted by Galvetus View Post
    I would agree that if you spend enough time twiking you will get good sound, but at the same time i think it should be good right out of the box. This is real instruments after all, so they should sound realistic.
    With some good reverb, I think the instruments do sound very good and real right out of the box, especially compared to MIDI.

    But realistic musical expression and a collection of realistic sounds are two very different things, just as an inexperience violin player will sound bad on any violin. No instrument will sound good "out of the box" expression-wise, because that comes from the player.
    Sean Patrick Hannifin
    My MP3s | My Melody Generator | my album
    "serious music" ... as if the rest of us are just kidding

  8. #8

    Re: Sounds Like Midi!

    Hello, Galvetus - Thanks for joining in here at the Garritan Forum.

    You've already gotten some very good replies, and as you hang around here longer, you'll see that to receive good, friendly and helpful replies is typical for this great Forum.

    Your original question goes to an extremely large topic, and touches on the questions all new music software users have.

    The way you used the term "MIDI" in your subject line and in your original post, you clearly mean it in a negative way. That's because like many people, you've heard the MIDI files freely available on the internet which are simple and robotic files playing the not-very-good sounds which reside on your sound card. This is what "MIDI" has come to mean.

    But before the internet and this proliferation of unrealistic MIDI files, musicians were using MIDI to create a wide variety of music, and using the MIDI protocol in a way that has little to do with what you now hear on the internet. And now that we all have computers and access to the software versions of MIDI instruments and all the programs used to help create MIDI driven music, creative people continue to use MIDI for making some wonderfully natural and organic sounding recordings.

    It's a gigantic topic, as I said. What kind of results people get with using MIDI tools is exactly as LFO said in his reply to you - the results depend on How the tools are used.

    You expressed the sentiments of many MIDI newbies when you said:

    "...i think it should be good right out of the box..."

    We've become so accustomed to the powerful features available on computers that we can slip into a mindset that makes it seem that everything should be as easy as pushing a button or two and getting brilliant results.

    But that's a misled fantasy. Let me try to help you see how it would be literally impossible to have great, natural sounding music "out of the box."

    Think of a real-world instrument--Anything, like a Piano, a Guitar, a Violin. They each have their own unique sound and when a single note is played on any of them, we all have the innate ability to identify what the instrument is. Any of us could pick up an instrument (or sit in front of it in the case of a Piano) and hit the appropriate key or string and make a sound which would be recognizably characteristic of that instrument. But we wouldn't be able to actually play the instrument and perform music without spending a large chunk of time in learning How to play that instrument.

    Now think of "virtual instruments"--software instruments, also called "soft synths." They are collections of recorded samples from those real-world instruments. When a sample library of a Piano is made, each note is recorded at various volumes, then assembled into a file which can be triggered from a MIDI keyboard. Great. Hit a note - we can recognize that it's a Piano. --But the problem still exists that unless we learn how to actually play it, it'll just create noise, and won't necessarily even sound like an actual Piano.

    Instruments like Woodwinds and Brass - let's take a Trumpet. Those sampled notes need additional controls added to them in order to come closer to simulating what a musician does when performing live on that instrument. A Trumpet's note can't just be played and allowed to remain at one constant volume and without vibrato. The programming of the software version of the Trumpet needs to allow the MIDI musician to control the instrument's volume, fluctuating naturally over time in any way the musician wants, and there needs to be control for him to add Vibrato when he wants.

    Stringing those notes together in a performance that sounds natural takes time and training. The MIDI musician has to learn how to play that Trumpet characteristically - If he doesn't manage to simulate the way a Trumpet player works with his Trumpet, it doesn't matter how good the samples are - the MIDI version will lack a natural quality.

    That's why it's literally impossible for any soft synth to be instantly fantastic "out of the box." Single notes can perhaps sound believable, since they are recordings of the real instrument - but even single notes can lack naturalness if some amount of control isn't applied by the MIDI musician-as described above. If you want to test the sound of a sampled Trumpet - you can't just load the instrument, hit a key that triggers the sound, and expect to be convinced that it's a trumpet.

    There's irony in saying that what you're hearing in the GPO demos "sounds like MIDI." Well - it Is MIDI, and no matter how sophisticated the sample libraries become, or how proficient a MIDI musician becomes, the results will always be a simplification of a live performance on real-world instruments. We may as well expect a painting to be rendered so realistically that we're fooled into thinking we're actually looking at the real world itself rather than an artistic representation of it. The best MIDI recordings are abstractions of reality, akin to clever CGI work in movies.

    There's much beauty to be found in the MIDI world - from the creation of sounds and music impossible to achieve with real-world instruments, to re-creations of full symphony orchestras which can certainly be adequate enough to help MIDI composers envision what their pieces will sound like with a real orchestra.

    Simply put - creating music on a computer with these instruments is not an instant gratification "out of the box" plug-and-play proposition. It takes much time and dedication. And like all things worthwhile, can keep one creatively occupied for a lifetime.

    Randy B.

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