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Topic: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

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  1. #1

    Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Hi there,

    I'll stipulate that I am in fact a bottom feeder in the sample library world. I could rationalize the behavior in any number of ways (simplicity of smaller libraries, etc) but the bottom line is that I simply don't earn enough as a composer/arranger (yet) to justify the cost (in money, time to learn, time to use) of the big guns.

    And in fact, with the exception of being somewhat trapped in GS-land I'm in great shape, and can realize, at a level I'm satisfied with, almost every idea that meanders through my mind

    The one big gaping chasm is choirs... the kind one would use in a sound track for a game or movie - you know the sound.

    And as I am in the midst of cleaning up and updating my demo reel specifically to go after this sort of work I figure it might be handy to include an example or two. I have to come up with the idea first, and then execute it well, but even before that I need a choir library that plays in a sample player I already own or is a virtual Instrument. And (sadly) I need it to be priced, well, cheap.

    Sample players that I use today include Kore Player, GigaStudio 3, Independence, and ShortCircuit. I also have a locked K2 player, I'm pretty sure that does me no good in this case. And I could drag out and use any of the sample playback engines that came with Sonar 1 - 8, some of which may even still be installed (Vsampler is not, but I still have the installer.)

    I have tried every soundfont I could find, thinking that was a reasonable avenue, but if there is a big choir soundfont I have not yet stumbled across it. I've been through my Akai and Ensoniq libraries, but the only stuff I have is isolated oohs and aahs (and strangely enough one of the coolest is one I imported from my Mirage library... cool, but not appropriate for what I'm trying to do.

    Thoughts? Recommendations? Pointers to tricks that would let me use what I do have to get that sound (am I just missing something entirely?) Anyone want to dump an old GS choir library they no longer use really cheap?

    Thanks,

    Bill
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
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    New York, NY
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    656

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Honestly, the best choir out there is the one created by East West called Symphonic Choirs... Recently they have transported this to their "Play Engine" which is a propietary sampler which to really use at its best requires huge resources... However, they have an earlier version of this which use the kontakt player and that can be used on any machine with at least 2 gigs of ram... However, this has been discontinued and you would have to hunt around to find a store that still selling this... Guitar Centers around the country will probably still have a copy lying around... But really, this is the best thing out there when it comes to choirs, if you really want to do serious choir work... it also has wordbuilder which allows the choir to sing words... It requires work to do this, but like I said, this is if your needs are for serious choir work...

    If you just want the occasional oooh aaah here and there or solidly in the background, spectrasonics symphony of voices is a good second choice, and I think they still have a giga version...

    Miroslav Vitous orchestra choirs are also pretty good, but you have to buy the whole orchestra...

    Bela D Media offered choirs at one point, I don't know if they still do...

  3. #3

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Quote Originally Posted by tradivoro View Post
    Honestly, the best choir out there is the one created by East West called Symphonic Choirs... <snip>
    I don't know about best, but yes, that's the one I use at a friend's studio and it is capable of creating that "sound" I'm after. The problem is, well, I'm cheap. Actually, that's not true. I have a respectable studio, and a maybe even very respectable microphone locker. These are the fruits of starting small and upgrading as I brought in more business.

    That's seldom the best financial solution - I cringe sometimes when I think of the junk I purchased just to finish a project, only to lose my shirt re-selling it, if I was able to re-sell it. But, in the realm of hardware that's the difficult choice one has to make, and one has to learn that lesson a couple of times before it sinks in.

    In the software realm it's a little bit different. For example, I own and use Garritan's GPO and JABB, and I turn to them first as often as not. I supplement them with GS instruments, because they aren't the last word, but they are so easy to use that they let me sketch out my ideas. I imagine that when I eventually own all the big guns I'll still use them.

    And that's what I'm hoping to find for a choir library...

    Quote Originally Posted by tradivoro View Post
    If you just want the occasional oooh aaah here and there or in the background, spectrasonics symphony of voices is a good second choice, and I think they still have a giga version...
    Sadly I'm beyond the ooohs and aaahs thing now, or I think I am anyway. Part of the reason for this query was to discover if perhaps I'm missing something.

    And I am missing one thing at least... I have never played around with "Symphony of Voices" - but I will take a look now.

    Thanks!

    Bill
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    New York, NY
    Posts
    656

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Hi bill, I didn't know you had reponded, I was just updating my post to include a couple of others... But if you've worked with the symphonic choirs and that's the sound for you, honestly, there's nothing else out there... Symphony of Voices, although great in many respects is still just vowel sounds...

    As far as equipment and purchases, listen, all this stuff is guaranteed to depreciate and become obsolete in a couple of years... The best that can happen is that you're doing work on a regular basis that will pay for this stuff... I can think over the decades equipment that I've used that at the time was the cat's meow, and 5 years later you couldn't sell it... This was particularly true back in 80s... For instance, I remember working in a studio that bought an emulator in the early 80s... It brought in a lot of work, but it cost many thousands of dollars.... By the early 90s, we couldn't give the thing away...

    The way things are going nowadays, this stuff is getting cheaper adn better... But call around guitar centers in parts of the country that normally don't do this kind of music... For instance, when they were blowing out atmosphere by spectrasonics, I missed out on the original sale that Guitar Center had here in New York... Nobody had a copy any more... I called up guitar center in alabama and they had 3 copies gathering dust on their shelf... and got it for an even cheaper price... Your mileage may vary, but try calling around and see if any stores have the old Symphonic Choirs hanging around and they sell it just to get if off their shelves... You never know...

  5. #5

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Hi Bill,
    I would recommend you to look for Myriad Harmony Assistant and Virtual Singer. It is able to sing choir and lyrics in different languages.
    Try before bye.
    Regards,
    AlexBG
    Windows XP-SP2, IE7, ARIA GPO4, GPO KP2, Kontakt 3, NOTION 3, Amplitube X-GEAR, Overture 4.1, Harmony Assistant 9.5.1e, Virtual Singer, Gold SoundBase 2, OMeR 2.2, PDF to Music 1.2.1d, Miroslav Philharmonik, Sample Tank 2SE, Audacity, MuseScore 0.9.6

  6. #6

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Quote Originally Posted by tradivoro View Post
    <snip>As far as equipment and purchases, listen, all this stuff is guaranteed to depreciate and become obsolete in a couple of years... <snip>
    There's obsolete and then there is no longer usable. One could probably argue that all my libraries are obsolete, most have not been available commercially for some time. But they are still useful to me - the whole GS nightmare notwithstanding.

    I do understand you point... really.

    Quote Originally Posted by tradivoro View Post
    <snip>call around guitar centers in parts of the country that normally don't do this kind of music... For instance, when they were blowing out atmosphere by spectrasonics, I missed out on the original sale that Guitar Center had here in New York... Nobody had a copy any more... I called up guitar center in alabama and they had 3 copies gathering dust on their shelf... and got it for an even cheaper price...
    Now why didn't I think of that?

    Quote Originally Posted by tradivoro View Post
    Your mileage may vary, but try calling around and see if any stores have the old Symphonic Choirs hanging around and they sell it just to get if off their shelves... You never know...
    Costs very little to find out! Thanks for the tip!

    Bill
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  7. #7

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    Wow, thanks for the lead. I played around with their Melody and Harmony Assistant tools a while back, and they didn't really offer me what I was looking for, but they were cool! I've downloaded the demo versions and will give them a spin this evening!

    Thanks!

    Bill

    Quote Originally Posted by AlexBG View Post
    Hi Bill,
    I would recommend you to look for Myriad Harmony Assistant and Virtual Singer. It is able to sing choir and lyrics in different languages.
    Try before bye.
    AlexBG
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  8. #8

    Re: Greetings all, and a question (what else)

    This can give you some help, tricky help. Is an old plugin, that can give you some results. Im not aware if Melodyne or another more modern vocal tool can replace it:

    http://www.cloneensemble.com/

    Maybe not so realistic results, but for sure, fun.
    Marcelo Colina

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