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Topic: OT-Kp2 player to the full

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  1. #1

    OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Never thought of it, until today. I was experimenting with buffers, ASIO setup, etc. in Sonar 8 Producer 64 bits. I kept having once in a while dropouts, hicks and clicks. I also noticed that with changing those SONAR buffers the "looks' of the audiofile bounced, differs everytime.

    I am still wondering how that was possible, because the source has been that one same midi input. I ended up with looking at the "Option" menu in the KP2 player and just without any argument to support it, I raised all DFD streams to the max, including those under Expert Mode(number of voices is now 384).

    A world of difference. Now all instruments were sounding a lot brighter, basses were basses, trumpets were trumpets and tubas didn't sound as flushed toilets anymore.

    So, if you can try it... I won't give you any garantee nor any responsibility for any damage (as they always say in Software programs).... but it certainly is worth looking into it.

    My two cents,

    Raymond

  2. #2

    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Hi Raymond,

    I checked this out on my computer and found I don't quite have the resources that you do. I am running an AMD64 X2 Duo Core 4200+ processor with 4 gigs of memory in Windows XP SP3 32 bit.

    4 gigs of RAM: is all any 32 bit machine in Windows can run. As it is the OS only recognizes 3.5 gigs.

    I don't know what your setup is for sure, though I do remember you said you had just done a nice upgrade. So, for those of you with my type of setup or situation be advised that if you push the slider to the max as Raymond is referring to, you will probably get what happened to me. Sonar 6 HS froze and the system needed a reboot. After a few trial and errors, I was able to coax 200 voices at approximately 90 gigs of RAM: usage and did not dare touch the Expert Mode button (which by the way will freeze Sonar even at the default setting).

    I believe, Raymond, you have considerably more RAM: than 4 gigs and are not running Windows in 32 bit mode. This is just a guess, but if I am wrong let me know because I will than have to wonder what may be wrong with my system.

    Great Ideas and suggestions Raymond and the caveat is well taken!
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  3. #3
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    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Gday Rich.

    You said:

    “4 gigs of RAM: is all any 32 bit machine in Windows can run. As it is the OS only recognizes 3.5 gigs.”

    3720KB = 1 GB.

    In Windows XP Pro you can go to Task Manager, Performance and read the total memory expressed in KB, not in GB.

    The Help file specifically says:

    “Totals, in kilobytes, for physical, kernel, and commit memory.”

    GB has a dual meaning, but 1 KB always equals 1024 Byte, not 1000 Byte.

    You can look up
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigabyte.

    Due to memory use by devices, numbers never appear to add up exactly. If you have a video card with its own memory, which is pretty well standard today, the address space taken up by the video card and other devices is minute compared to the 4 GB or 3.72 GB if you like. But even with onboard memory of the video card, there are two small windows in the memory map that permit communication of the video card to the system. One such window is in lower memory, the other at the top of the 4 GB memory space.

    As you can see, there is a simple explanation for what appears to be a shortfall of memory, when you have paid for 4 GB. There are many claims of unexplained memory loss because of the GB confusion.


    Best wishes,

    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

  4. #4

    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Quote Originally Posted by RichR View Post
    Hi Raymond,

    I checked this out on my computer and found I don't quite have the resources that you do. I am running an AMD64 X2 Duo Core 4200+ processor with 4 gigs of memory in Windows XP SP3 32 bit.

    Sorry to hear this. I am using 8Gb RAM and running XP64/SONAR64 (and only the 64 bits version).

    Raymond

  5. #5

    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Herbert,

    That was an excellent discussion and presentation of a Gigabyte. I appreciate the detail. I am aware of all that.

    My statement to Raymond and let me rephrase it is that a 32 bi OS can only use a Maximum of 4 gigabytes. Your motherboard might be able to take 8 gigbytes of RAM: but the OS will only operate on 4 of them. In my System Properties, it simply states on the General page - 3.5 GB of RAM.

    So the point I was making to the topic that Raymond started was that his pushing the slider in Options of the K2 Player is something to be careful with because, if you don't have lots and lots of RAM and your system doesn't recognize the RAM even if you have installed lots and lots of RAM, then your sequencer and KP2 Player will crash or freeze (not responding).
    [Music is the Rhythm, Harmony and Breath of Life]
    "Music is music, and a note's a note" - Louis 'Satchmo' Armstrong

    Rich

  6. #6
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    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Gday again Rich,

    All advice given in good faith. Hopefully it will help somebody.

    I have 4 GB of RAM only, with Windows XP 32 bit. I am using around 32 tracks but have never had any out of memory problems.

    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

  7. #7
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    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Gday Raymond,

    I am glad, that your tubas no longer sound like flushing toilets.

    I am puzzled. Shortfalls of resources usually result in dropouts, not in a change of sound quality. Well, there is always a surprise around the corner. Perhaps you can report further

    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

  8. #8

    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Herbert, along with you, I'm puzzled by this from Raymond:

    "...Now all instruments were sounding a lot brighter, basses were basses, trumpets were trumpets and tubas didn't sound as flushed toilets anymore..."

    I thought the samples would either play or not - How can raising the DFD buffers change sound quality - ?

    Randy

  9. #9

    Re: OT-Kp2 player to the full

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Herbert, along with you, I'm puzzled by this from Raymond:

    "...Now all instruments were sounding a lot brighter, basses were basses, trumpets were trumpets and tubas didn't sound as flushed toilets anymore..."

    I thought the samples would either play or not - How can raising the DFD buffers change sound quality - ?

    Randy

    Surprise!!!! It puzzles me also, but I noticed it. To be clear, I just put that one and only MIDI file with a lot of instruments (in fact the 1st part of the symphony) to the test. I tested different buffer settings and all settings were used for output to different audiofiles. With or without hicks, clicks, or else the audiofile should be the same, volume-wise and other things.

    They weren't!!!!! With some higher buffer settings I could amplify the audio with more Db's to the max than with other buffer settings (less Db's) or vice versa. I didn't write the figures down, but suppose a playbackbuffer of 1024 (in SONAR) and I could amplify the audio rendering with 7.5 Db. With another setting I could raise it with only 6.2 Db. It was exactly the same MIDI file, -in SONAR- I didn't touch any knobs or sliders. This happened also with different ASIO buffering.

    To get rid of hick, clicks and other alien stuff, I looked at the settings in KP2. Just for fun (or was I fed up with it?) I put them to the max (DFD settings). And suddenly it sounded brighter, fuller, better articulation, etc. Strange? Yes, it was and still is. No more hicks, clicks, aliassing, etc.

    I can do this without any restriction because I have an Intel Core Duo, 8 Gb of RAM and XP64, so lots and lots of resources.

    Sorry guys, it still puzzles me, maybe some hallucination, but I don't think so, my ears tell the story(and I didn't drink a beer).

    And now, time to go to sleep.

    Raymond

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