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Topic: Brass Choral, critisism requested

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  1. #1
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    Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hello everybody,

    I am new to everything. This forum, composing, my new Mac (used Windows before) Logic and my sampler.

    Last month I have given myself a task in order to figure out my new system; write a short choral for a brass ensemble (how hard can it be?...ahum!) By now I have lost all my objectiveness.
    I am not satisfied but I can no longer judge what to change.
    I would really like you sharp eared composers out there to give me some feedback.

    Technical; stereo field, depth, reverb, compression, articulations ect. Artistical; ok I know I should do the orchestration course and I sure will,
    or anything that comes to mind.

    I hope this link works because I'm also new at box.net

    http://www.box.net/shared/nyyus2ia4m

    I thank you all very much if you could spare a minute.
    Greetings,
    Joost

  2. #2
    Senior Member June-Bug-Dan's Avatar
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    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Can you state which instruments are to what library? (especially GPO)


    Dan.
    Trumpet, cornet, flugel player. Composer and student.

  3. #3
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    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Gday Joost,

    This is beautifully melodic music. What could be timpani rolls somewhere in the middle is rather muffled and muddy. Leave it for a week or two and than listen to it again.

    Best wishes,

    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

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  4. #4
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    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hello Dan,

    From GPO I've used :FHorn Overlay f
    French Horn (which I pass for Alto Horn)
    Tbone Overlay
    Tenor Tbone
    Tpt Overlay
    Tuba 2 Solo

    Other library's I've used are East West QL Brass, VSL Brass, East West Choirs and the tiny bit of percussion is from Project Sam.

    It looks like a lot of different resources but half of the orchestra is constructed out of GPO samples.

    Greetings,
    Joost

  5. #5
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    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hello Herbert,

    Point well taken, thanks for that. It's in fact a Gran Casa roll, I've now dimmed it down.
    It's probably due to the fact that I'm using a tiny little headset to mix it.
    (Sony-MDR62) I don't have an audio interface with monitors yet.
    I'm trying to figure out what the most appropriate set is.

    Greetings,
    Joost

  6. #6

    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hi, Joost -Congratulations on your first Listening Room post.

    And I'm glad to see you've gotten some feedback. I appreciate that you enumerated the sound sources for your recording - that's always helpful to us, since one of the main purposes of this Forum is to help each other out in the use of Garritan Libraries, and it only confuses things when we're not sure of what instruments and libraries we're actually listening to.

    Right now your composition is coming through, and I enjoyed it a great deal. The recording isn't helping it come across as well as it could, but it's certainly not in the "terrible" category. There's muddiness to it - something we all struggle with. I see you're using headphones - and that's a big disadvantage since you can't hear what things will sound like on speakers. Once you have a more complete set up, I imagine your talented ears will start tuning into elements of muddiness, learn how to thin things out with EQ, how to get reverb more under control etc.

    I seemed to hear some degree of notes overlapping, and that would also cause some lack of clarity - I mean, a monophonic instrument, like all of them you were using, but being played polyphonically so that when notes overlap there's that moment of the previous note melting over into the new note, which of course isn't natural.

    You listed a lot of the Overlay instruments from GPO - Those are very helpful in getting a brassier sounds when used Sparingly, welling up on loud notes - But they aren't intended as soloists, since on their own they don't sound like any Real World instrument. You have the Trumpet Overlay listed on its own - I think then you must have mixed it with an actual Trumpet from one of the non-GPO libraries?

    Hang around - lots of information and helpful people at this site. As long as we know you actually want technical help and input, then we can help. But we don't want to make the mistake that sometimes happen - giving advice when actually a poster isn't interested in that kind of feedback.

    Thanks for the music!

    Randy B.

  7. #7

    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hey Joost,

    Welcome to the forum!

    I agree with the above comments on a bit of a "muddy" sound. But not to worry, ... this is a process and you have a great start. Overall your work has a majestic quality; smooth and easily absorbed.

    I would like to suggest that you my want to review the brass writing - on the "vertical". Be careful how you "stack" your brass notes. Watch for "muddy 3rds"; and be mindful of register. This "may" be contributing to the sound quality. Also, decreasing the dynamic on only the supporting instruments will clarify your melody and may help the overall recording.

    Hopefully we'll hear more soon!

    M
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  8. #8
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    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hello Randy,

    Thanks for your help.
    I've gone straight to work taking away all overlapping notes.
    For clearity I took everything away which was not strictly necessary and I trimmed down the reverb.
    The overlay instruments are all fired and replaced by actual instruments.

    I'm afraid Reverb, EQ and muddiness will have to wait untill I've completed my setup.

    When I reach the next level of content I will put it back on the forum.
    Thanks Randy, you've been very helpfull

    Greetings,
    Joost

  9. #9

    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Oh my! - QUICK note - You DO need the notes to overlap a tiny bit, otherwise you'll have an unnatural disconnectedness between notes. You just need to avoid the larger overlaps which I think I heard.

    But I certainly didn't expect you to jump right in editing--wow!

    MICHAEL had excellent notes too--don't neglect his. I suggest you follow his advice and give a slow, chord-by-chord listen through your file and see if you have muddying 3rds, - and I do want to add that I felt you used the lowest octaves too constantly.

    The Overlays can be fine, Very helpful for beefing the sound up now and then, just always mixed in on top of the regular instruments.

    I'm impressed by your desire to roll your sleeves up and do more work!

    Randy


    Quote Originally Posted by joovis View Post
    Hello Randy,

    Thanks for your help.
    I've gone straight to work taking away all overlapping notes.
    For clearity I took everything away which was not strictly necessary and I trimmed down the reverb.
    The overlay instruments are all fired and replaced by actual instruments.

    I'm afraid Reverb, EQ and muddiness will have to wait untill I've completed my setup.

    When I reach the next level of content I will put it back on the forum.
    Thanks Randy, you've been very helpfull

    Greetings,
    Joost

  10. #10
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    Re: Brass Choral, critisism requested

    Hi Michael,

    Absolutly correct, I've already taken out several muddying 3rds albeit with some regret to find my "carefully" constructed cords brutely simplified.

    It can be my imagination but I think it already starts to sound better.
    I can't wait to post it again but it will take a while. First I have to complete my system setup with monitors and an audio interface.
    Now it feels like judge a painting through coloured glasses.

    Thanks for your comment Michael

    Greetings,
    Joost

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