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Topic: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

  1. #1

    Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    I don't know. I am re-doing my older Sonatas, some with very fast chromatic sequences from the top of the keyboard to the lowest possible key and vice versa, with and without pedal(sustain), followed by trills, etc. and then.....

    - ARIA displays an error - SONAR stalls (already contacted Plogue) or
    - SONAR stalls with the same note or
    - STEINWAY goes crazy with the last two notes of that trill

    in either way, I have to force SONAR to stop. It happened too often to say "Oh that's a normal MIDI hick". No way. I am really fed up with this.


  2. #2

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    Why not isolate each component?

    Play the MIDI file in SONAR using another instrument, perhaps the GM piano that came with SONAR?

    Then run the MIDI file in the GAS Standalone player outside of SONAR.

    Or check your ASIO buffers, etc.

    Or do a slow bounce, whatever.

  3. #3

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    Sorry to hear you're having more problems, Raymond.

    electone2007 has given you good advice. It seems your buffer must be too small for your system to keep up with those demanding passages. But bouncing the track with "fast bounce" turned off could very well yield you the recording you need.


  4. #4

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    To clear something.

    • I am always bouncing the slowest way I can ;
    • I am always using 64-bits engine for the Steinway only (with KP2 this doesn't work), but even with that option unchecked it happens;
    • I isolated the problem many times, as many as the errors occurred, but sometimes those errors are there and sometimes not WITH THE SAME PHRASE;
    • I "think" it has to do with pedalling(sustain). I started a chromatic sequence of 1/32 notes from bottom to top and back halfway (very fast playing!!!) with sustain-on, at the last note I had sustain-off to do a sustain-on the very next note - again 1/32 note duration. Shifting the sustain-off a bit to the left gave some relief (the error didn't occur as much as before);
    • I played around with different buffers in SONAR, different ASIO settings, different pre-load buffers (under INFO at the ARIA player);
    • I already sent in some error reports to Plogue, nice guys;
    • Trying to load the freestanding Steinway 64-bits takes about 20 seconds, strange behaviour though;
    • .... anything else?

    I managed to get a "clean" output, as clean as possible. Some "ticks" are still audible (very soft, but present).


  5. #5

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    So what you did doesn't isolate anything 'coz you're using the Garritan Steinway only. To know if problem is with SONAR, use a different instrument.

  6. #6

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?


    it is only there when I use Steinway.
    I did a lot of other music with SONAR 8 Prod, and never found those errors on my path. Besides that, this is the only instrument I have with ARIA.
    I am NOT a Finale/Sibelius user, who seemed to have some ARIA stuff in them.

    Besides that, I am NOT a beta-tester for the Plogue or Garritan company. I just want it to work properly as I expect a product must work.


  7. #7

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    Hi, Raymond - I understand, you're frustrated again. If I'd ever had an experience anything like what you're describing, maybe I could help figure this out better.

    In your original post, I had the impression you were talking about Aria and Sonar crashing during live playback of the MIDI files with all the fast arpeggios. But you're saying that the bounced files have glitches?--but the apps aren't crashing when you bounce, right?

    I've never had any glitches in Any recordings that I've done with slow bounce, including Steinway tracks that include 32nd note arpeggios - So, if I'm understanding what you're saying, it's a mystery to me why on your high powered new system you'd have problems worse than my much more humble Vista laptop.

    "...Trying to load the freestanding Steinway 64-bits takes about
    20 seconds..."

    Did you mention that because you find 20 seconds to be too long a load? I ran a test just now using the 64 bit stand-alone and it took 32 to load on my machine. That seems plenty fast to me, considering that after loading I'll be working with it for many hours before unloading it again.


  8. #8

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    Hi folks, to explain it further

    First situation

    1. I was editing and rendering a Piano Sonata.
    2. Before "bouncing" I always listen to what I've done.
    3. While that was going on, at the end of a very fast run, ARIA dll produced an error, while Sonar went on an on WITHOUT any sound (moving vertical line=cursor, was still moving). That error had been sent to Plogue with the help of the "ARIA analyzer". This happened more than once, in fact all the time at the same spot (or about).

    Second situation

    1. To cure the above situation I amended the buffers in SONAR.
    2. Now another error occurred, - still while listening to the music -, at the end of a very fast run, another as above, the sound ended in "horror" and kept going on and on and on, while SONAR stalled (no movement of that cursor line).
    3. I did a survey of the MIDI file and replaced some of the sustain-pedal-on/off's. So far no more MIDI stalling. I decided after some more editing on velocities, etc. to render that file.
    4. I always render pure Steinway stuff with:

    • ASIO buffers now set to 50
    • Playback buffers in Sonar 2048
    • Recording buffers in Sonar 2048
    • Steinway ARIA set to 128 voices
    • Steinway ARIA buffer set to the max
    • Steinway ARIA quality set to the highest
    • SONAR render with "slow bounce"
    and surprise: while listening (this means, listen while the rendering takes place) the whole thing stalled at the beginning of a trill just after those fast runs I was talking about, and kept repeating the playback of the first two notes of the trill with a lot of distortion.

    Isn't that frustrating? Yes!!!!!

    So in order to get the file done after all, I amended against my will some pedal settings (deleted them or put them more to the left). I didn't alter any buffering!!!! Now the file finally got rendered.

    My idea is that when you have a pedal setting "pedal-on" at the beginning of a very fast sequence consisting of all chromatic notes between the lowest possible and almost the highest on a keyboard, the number of voices are buidling up beyond the possible programmed. At the end of that run just before the last note, there was a pedal-off to be followed by a trill with at the first note again "pedal on".


  9. #9

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Did you mention that because you find 20 seconds to be too long a load?
    Yes. Also happens with the 32-bit version. And that is just loading the GUI without any instrument.


  10. #10

    Re: Is the Steinway, SONAR or the ARIA player?

    I just uploaded a Sonar project file to demonstrate it.
    It is just a tiny bit of the whole piece (example!!) and it is NOT stalling the first time, but let it run. At my system it goes bananas at the third time, which is in fact more to the reality of the sonata I was talking about.

    Here it is: enjoy


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