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Topic: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

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  1. #1
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    Unhappy Having problem with Aria Player and Steinway Basic: no response to incoming CC#7

    I've just purchased, downloaded, and installed Steinway Basic onto my machine. I'm using Brainspawn Forte V 2.0 as a host. When I first installed Steinway Basic, I would swear that everything worked as expected. After shutting down my system and then re-starting in the morning, Steinway Basic has stopped responding to the volume pedal. Using Midiox, I've verified that the pedal is working and transmitting CC7 values 00-79 (0-127) on channel 1. Forte allows me to re-map incoming CC data. If I remap my expression pedal (CC7) to Sustain (CC64) I can use the expression pedal as a sustain pedal when the pedal is all the way down (127) - so I know that the pedal is working and that when unison mapped (CC7 from the pedal to CC7 in Steinway) the volume pedal should work. If I use another piano VST like Truepiano and use the exact midi CC routing and mapping, the volume pedal works. WTF? Has anyone ever run into this problem? Steinway Basic sounds great and I'm anxious to use it but this damned CC#7 thing is a total show stopper. Any ideas? Thanks in advance. I hope i'm doing something really stupid . . .

  2. #2

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Hi, Boxerdad - Any ideas? Yes - The Steinway doesn't respond to CC7. It's volume is controlled solely by velocity values (how hard you hit the keys). Inside an app like Sonar, of course the audio slider it's assigned to will effect its volume in proportion with other instruments in a mix.

    Randy B.

  3. #3
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    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Randy:

    Thanks for your input! Good lord, it looks like I was lead astray by the manual itself. The following is from Appendix A:

    "Besides Note-ons and Note-offs, the Garritan Authorized Steinway Virtual Concert Grand responds to these MIDI commands:

    Controller #64, Sustain pedal. Holds any notes which are currently sounding or subse-quently played when depressed. Also engages the Sustain Resonance if active.

    Controller #66, Sostenuto pedal. Holds only the notes which are currently sounding when the pedal is depressed, functioning just as it does on a real acoustic grand piano.

    Controller #67, Soft Pedal. Engages the soft pedal samples if they are active.

    Controller #7, MIDI Volume. The volume level can be controlled in your MIDI track or by your MIDI controller via the standard MIDI control for volume, cc# 7.

    Pitchbend, Modulation Wheel, Channel Pressure (Aftertouch), and Program Change commands do not have any effect."

    Proof positive that one cannot always believe what one reads . . .

  4. #4

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Hello again, Boxerdad - I've never noticed that Appendix information you quoted. I've confirmed that what you posted is the same text in the hard copy of the manual for my Professional edition of the Steinway.

    This made me do some quick tests in the stand alone mode, and then with the piano as a VST in Sonar. As expected, CC7 has no effect in either circumstance.

    So I'm perplexed why that info is in the manual. From day one all of us here have understood that the Steinway is controlled solely by velocity, and if we need it at a higher level in a project, it's a matter of working with the Aria audio track in our apps.

    Maybe I'm missing something and someone can point out my error, but this is how it seems to me.

    I've never had an issue, however, controlling the piano's volume by velocity. The full range of volume is available that way - one wouldn't want to be changing its potential volume level during a project anyway. That's something that would happen with standard MIDI synth pianos - you would hear people using volume control so that notes would unnaturally change volume as they sustain, and you'd also have the effect of the whole piano moving backwards and forwards on a stage during a piece--not very effective.

    Well - That's how much I can say on the subject anyway!

    Randy B.

  5. #5

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    It looks like the manual got out of synch with some late changes last year and went unnoticed. I'd wanted to put in cc7 originally but some technical stuff that I won't go into made it tricky at the time - since it's uncommon to want to modulate volume during a piano piece it was left out (typically a player would want to set volume only once). Though I might say it's unusual, there's certainly nothing wrong with wanting to use cc7 or cc11, so I am planning to add response to these ccs quite soon. All the more so since the manual mentions cc7.

  6. #6

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    If you're just looking for a way to adjust the volume from within the Steinway GUI, you can move the dry slider in the ambience section - it will change the overall volume even if ambience is off.

  7. #7
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    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Jeff:

    Thanks for the clarification!

  8. #8

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Hello,

    any news here?

    I'm using midi files from Lilypond which writes dynamics ONLY in CC7
    alternatively: do you know any script on os x that would convert cc7 to velocity?

    thanks in advance,
    b

  9. #9

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Thanks for the reminder on CC7. I meant to put that into 1.04 but apparently I hadn't actually written it down in the feature list to go into it. I don't expect it to be a problem to get into the next update.
    Offhand I don't know of any utility for OSX to convert cc7 to velocity. In principle it should be doable, though the main trouble would come in simply being able to find such a utility if it exists.

  10. #10

    Re: Having problems with Steinway Basic and CC 7

    Quote Originally Posted by bachelet View Post
    I'm using midi files from Lilypond which writes dynamics ONLY in CC7
    alternatively: do you know any script on os x that would convert cc7 to velocity?
    I don't know anything about Lilypond, but the free OS X MidiPipe will certainly do realtime conversion of CC7 messages to velocity messages. Would that work for you?

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