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Topic: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

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  1. #1

    Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    I'm on a roll - I asked a question about editing the polyphony of instruments in GPO4, never having edited SFZ files before, and Pascal and Tom gave me the simple, direct instructions I needed. That thread is here:

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...141#post629141

    Now I'm curious about what Gunther said in a recent thread about having alternate instruments for staccato and/or fast passages so they have faster attacks.

    Looking at the xml text files for individual instruments, I see this parameter for the amplitude envelope:

    ampeg_attack=0.331247 ampeg_attack_shape=-1.70545 ampeg_attack_curve=10

    Would I want to just edit the attack time so it's "0" -? Or is there a different line I should edit?

    I couldn't see a similar parameter in the Bank texts, I think this would need to be on a per-instrument basis.

    And then I could save this copy of the text and create a new file, call it "Fast," or something like that, - and then it would show up as a choice in the Aria menu?

    Randy

  2. #2

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Adding to my own post, - I've already answered part of my question. What I outlined for creating a staccato version of an instrument wasn't enough. I realized to make the new, edited and renamed version of an instrument to show up, I needed to add it to the list of instruments in the bank text file. That was easy - I just copied and pasted the instrument I used, renamed it - and then the new instrument would look to the right sample files.

    So that worked - The newly created instrument did show up in Aria. BUT - changing that amplitude attack to "0" made no perceptible difference in the sound. That's either the wrong parameter to edit, or I need to change the same parameter later in the file where different layers are listed.

    Fun experimenting - Maybe Gunther, who has apparently done this, can see this thread and tell us how he creates instruments with faster attacks.

    The whole reason for doing this is that we all know that no matter how high the velocity value, there's still a limit to how fast an instrument will sound out on attack, due to its programming. It would be nifty if we could create alternate instruments for faster or more aggressive passages.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Hi Randy,

    I did this in Kontakt. Only there you can change the "sample-start- and end-points".

    I think you have CmB? I did some trumpets with short attack and round robin. For round robin I was tricky and detuned the samples and used some plugin-effects. There is a sticky thread here and you can download these trumpets here;

    http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/...26&postcount=1

    and then look what I have done.

    Hope this helps.

    Best,

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  4. #4

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Thanks, Gunther - I remember when you posted the edited trumpets, - really nice. I have them on my other computer. I'll take a look at the text files to see what you did. Thanks for the info.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Gunther, when you posted these edited trumpets, I downloaded them, but now I'm realizing I had never unzipped the files to try them out!

    I have had partial success using them, but here are the problems:

    --Every time I try to load one of your trumpets in KP2, it has to search for missing samples. It finds most of them, but then has to search again the next time I load one of the instruments.

    --KP2 is doing this because you've used the European spelling "Programme" instead of the English "Program." Also, you have all the samples located on the "H" drive, while my samples are on my "C" drive.

    --You have a reverb file listed, "17 golden plate" which apparently is supposed to be in the Kontakt folder, but I can't find it. To make the instrument finish loading, I'm just skipping that file.

    --KP2 crashes every time I try to do a manual search for any of this.

    But most importantly, I'm unable to take a look at the editing you did, because the .nki files won't display in Notepad or anything else I've tried. It's all scrambled looking code instead of straight text.

    So - ? -hummm.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    An update on my experiment to get a crisper attack for fast passages - It hasn't worked yet. Changing ampeg_attack=0.331247 to "0" on all layers produces absolutely no difference in the sound. So, that must not be the parameter to change.

    Maybe someone who knows more about editing SFZ files, and specifically, the GPO SFZ files, will know if what I'm trying to do is possible.

    Changing the sample start points, as Gunther described doing in Kontakt files, doesn't seem to be possible with these files - ?

    Randy

  7. #7

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Hi Randy. Im having a time trying to understand how SFZ works in ARIA. I knowed a little with the sfz1.0 options, but there are new things so im little lost (and the visual editor dont work with this sfzs, and it was a help sometimes)
    Looking in the SFZ files of Trumpet player 1 (no KS) i found this:

    "ampeg_attack=0 //override
    ampeg_attack_oncc131=0.171217 ampeg_attack_curvecc131=10"

    what it means? mmm... not sure, but appear to be that by default this trumpet start at 0 (the faster attack) and that you can make it more slow with CC131...


    I would like to see some documentation about sfz2 and how it works... it would help. At least, if not all world will edit sfz, some more brave can share their editions with the rest of the users. I believe that David can help us with that a lot.


    Edit: I tryed to load sfz files in ARIA drag´ndropping and it works fine. But with the sfz files of GPO you cant. An error message appears saying "Macro xx not defined".
    I believe that would be good that ARIA simply read the folder structure of your hard disk. So, if you edit a SFZ file, and you save it with a slightly different name (flute.sfz to flute fast.sfz) it will be displayed in the menu without the need to edit a second complicated xml file.
    Marcelo Colina

  8. #8

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Gunther, when you posted these edited trumpets, I downloaded them, but now I'm realizing I had never unzipped the files to try them out!

    I have had partial success using them, but here are the problems:

    --Every time I try to load one of your trumpets in KP2, it has to search for missing samples. It finds most of them, but then has to search again the next time I load one of the instruments.

    --KP2 is doing this because you've used the European spelling "Programme" instead of the English "Program." Also, you have all the samples located on the "H" drive, while my samples are on my "C" drive.

    --You have a reverb file listed, "17 golden plate" which apparently is supposed to be in the Kontakt folder, but I can't find it. To make the instrument finish loading, I'm just skipping that file.

    --KP2 crashes every time I try to do a manual search for any of this.

    But most importantly, I'm unable to take a look at the editing you did, because the .nki files won't display in Notepad or anything else I've tried. It's all scrambled looking code instead of straight text.

    So - ? -hummm.

    Randy
    Hm,

    so far as I know it works great, otherwise Tom & Gary wouldn`t have done a sticky.

    I have nothing edited in word-pad or something else, brrrrr, I have edited the parameters in the sampler.

    Sure that my trumpets are searching for the samples. This is because they are only the "programs" and only people who have bought the original CmB can use them. So it has nothing to do with "European spelling "Programme" instead of the English "Program." And the folder you can change any times... .

    Sorry that it works not for you, Randy.

    Best,

    Gunther
    "Music is the shorthand of emotion." Leo Tolstoy

    Listen to me, tuning my triangle http://www.box.net/shared/ae822u6r3i

  9. #9
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    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Gday Gunther,

    Where can I find the Sticky?


    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

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    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
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  10. #10

    Re: Editing GPO4 SFZ files - attack

    Quote Originally Posted by germancomponist View Post
    Hm,

    so far as I know it works great, otherwise Tom & Gary wouldn`t have done a sticky.

    I have nothing edited in word-pad or something else, brrrrr, I have edited the parameters in the sampler.

    Sure that my trumpets are searching for the samples. This is because they are only the "programs" and only people who have bought the original CmB can use them. So it has nothing to do with "European spelling "Programme" instead of the English "Program." And the folder you can change any times... .

    Sorry that it works not for you, Randy.

    Best,

    Gunther
    When you pointed these out to me, Gunther, you suggested I look to see what you had done as a way of helping me edit the SFZ files, since that's the topic of this thread. But since I don't have the full Kontakt, I'm not able to see your editing. And that's OK, because I realize now it wouldn't relate to what I was asking about anyway. Your trumpets are nice but have nothing to do with how to edit SFZ files.

    The trumpets Do work for me, Gunther, but I'm saying that every time I choose one, Kontakt says the .wavs are missing and I have to push the button for it to search for them. Initially it's looking for a folder called "Programme" which of course doesn't exist anywhere on my computer. And then it ends up not finding all of the files because "17 golden plate" is not anywhere in my Kontakt folder. This extra hassle has nothing to do with being a CMB owner or not. I am, and that's why I'm able to eventually get your trumpets loaded.

    I doubt if I'm the only person who has this problem with your files. They are very useful, but because of your scripting, KP2 always says at first that the files are missing. It just takes awhile for it to do its automatic re-scanning routine each time.

    Meanwhile - it's help with editing SFZ files in a useful way that we need information on. Changing the polyphony was easy, so now I can have true solos again if I want. But how to change anything else isn't clear.

    Randy

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