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Topic: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

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  1. #1
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Hello;
    There is a product called SIR 1 and SIR 2, which is a reverb plug-in that works inside, say Cubase in my case. It seems to work by measuring and codifying the impulse response contours generated by a variety of sonic events, which are recorded in audio, say of a balloon poping in an auditorium. Does anyone have opinions and or tips on its use?
    Thanks,
    sd cisco

  2. #2

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Hiya, SD - I can simply tell you that S.I.R. is probably the best free plugin I ever grabbed. It's been around for a long time and is the standby convolution reverb unit for many people. They give you access to a large library of IRs. It's the plugin I almost always use in projects. The interface gives you a lot of control - EQ, balance, pre-delay, length of sample etc. It's fantastic.

    I still use the original S.I.R. which is free, with hundreds of IRs. S.I.R. 2 starts at $189 and goes up, offering you just a few IRs but of theoretically high quality. Their website has a graph comparing the two versions.

    S.I.R. reverb


    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    H'Lo Randy, Since you're a fellow SONAR user - do you find that there is there an advantage to using S.I.R. over PerfectSpace, which is included in SONAR? Is there smaller memory usage? Any info appreciated.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  4. #4

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Sir was nice in his day, it´s free. SIR 2 is not free anymore, im guess is a very nice plugin too.
    There is a nice project that works without latency, SIR has some latency on it, not good for live playing, it is called Reverberate LE.
    You can download it (free-beta but very stable) here:
    http://www.liquidsonics.com/software_reverberate_le.htm
    It´s very gentle on the CPU too.


    best Regards
    Marcelo Colina

  5. #5

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by reberclark View Post
    H'Lo Randy, Since you're a fellow SONAR user - do you find that there is there an advantage to using S.I.R. over PerfectSpace, which is included in SONAR? Is there smaller memory usage? Any info appreciated.
    Ah - well, Reber, I can't compare S.I.R. and PerfectSpace because I have Sonar 8 Studio Edition which doesn't include PS. That's why I keep using the free version of S.I.R. It's still another $200 to upgrade to the Producer Edition of Sonar, and that's not currently in the cards.

    Marce, you're right about a latency issue in S.I.R. It can only be strapped in during the final mix, not used before, because of a constant delay of 8960 samples. I used to use a plugin to correct that delay, but it's more practical to just use the S.I.R. plugin during mixdown when the delay doesn't matter. If I discover I need to add more MIDI data during mix down, I need to temporarily turn off S.I.R., otherwise that impossible-to-work-with latency delay pf 8960 samples will prevent keyboard playing.

    Randy

  6. #6
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Randy;
    Yes, there is a real significant degree of latency, so I have only used it on the mix down. Is it considered best practice to just apply the effect to the stereo output of the mix down? Or convert all the tracks to a stereo wave file and apply individually to each track? (haven't tried it that way, just asking).

    Thanks to the responders to this query, great feedback!!

    sd

  7. #7

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by sd cisco View Post
    Randy;
    Yes, there is a real significant degree of latency, so I have only used it on the mix down. Is it considered best practice to just apply the effect to the stereo output of the mix down? Or convert all the tracks to a stereo wave file and apply individually to each track? (haven't tried it that way, just asking).
    Hi, Sd - The answers to your questions in bold is- neither way.

    You wouldn't want to put a reverb unit on the master out for a mix because you'd be stuck with one reverb setting for the entire mix. Bad form, and is the cause of a lot of muddy mixes. The bass frequencies will have just as much reverb as the high ones - doesn't work.

    You Do want to work with audio tracks during the final mix, so all tracks should be bounced.

    BUT - you don't apply the effect individually to each track. Literally applying an effect is a destructive act - you no longer have the raw, dry tracks which are what you want to archive. Use effects in real time during the mix down. That way the effect is added to the mix, but the audio tracks remain unaffected.

    You need a dedicated Reverb bus in your Sonar project. That's where S.I.R., or any other reverb is inserted. The amount of reverb each individual track gets is controlled by the activated Send controls on each track's channel strip. Turn those dials up or down as needed, and it's rare to have any tracks at full "0" send, they're usually all below that, in the negative area.

    In the GUI of S.I.R., you want the wet slider all the way up, dry all the way down.

    If you discover you're still getting too much reverb on the mix, even after setting your sends, you can control the global amount of reverb by pulling the reverb bus's slider down.

    That's the way to do it. And Sonar has Plugin-Delay Compensation so that during the mix-down, you don't have the slap-back echo caused by the 8960 samples latency.

    Like I said earlier, and you confirmed, if you're doing more MIDI recording in the project once you've started your mix - then you need to temporarily turn S.I.R. off, otherwise you'll have that huge delay between playing a key and having sound.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Just another word about the free "ReverberateLE" plugin, since i like it very much, and i believe is a more modern and in development replace for SIR, that i previously used. It´s great for live playing, the cpu is very low, and you have no-latency. Even, it have a version that use your nVidia card graphic dsp instead of the CPU of your computer, if you wish. Also, you can EQ the impulse and has some other interesting controls.
    Try it, i believe it is as powerfull as SIR and the live playing is not an issue. The only "annying" thing is that the software is a constantly beta that you need to re-download when it expires. Is the way the developer try that you involved yourself looking for updates and bugfixes.
    Marcelo Colina

  9. #9

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Ah - well, Reber, I can't compare S.I.R. and PerfectSpace because I have Sonar 8 Studio Edition which doesn't include PS.
    I can take a shot at that...

    I get a bit less CPU overhead with PerfectSpace, and it comes with some nice IR's, including some very nice plates that I have used on several mixes. SIR, I will say, has a much more user-friendly GUI, so it is the one I usually turn to.

    However...

    Occasionally I will get a high-pitched ringing in the output of SIR. It's happened more than once, but I haven't taken the time to narrow it down to specific IR's or frequency inputs. When I replace SIR with Perfect Space - same inputs, same IR - the ringing goes away.

    So, in conclusion - SIR is my go-to unless I get the ringing, then it get's replaced with PS and I deal with the user-unfriendly GUI.

    I will say that Reverberate looks intriguing, and if it is true stereo (SIR and PS both sum the inputs to mono before applying the IR) then it may be a definite contender!

  10. #10

    Re: SIR 1 & 2 - Impulse Response Reverb

    Quote Originally Posted by raweber View Post

    I will say that Reverberate looks intriguing, and if it is true stereo (SIR and PS both sum the inputs to mono before applying the IR) then it may be a definite contender!
    Hi raweber. Appear that it use "parallel stereo" instead of the mono to stereo. They offer a paid version (usd 50) that claims "true stereo" and 64 bit version.
    For details about this differences they have this page:

    http://www.liquidsonics.com/software...rue_stereo.htm

    they list the difference between the "Le" version and the full one here:

    http://www.liquidsonics.com/software.htm
    Marcelo Colina

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