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Topic: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

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  1. #1

    GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Hi,

    Can someone tell me how to get a convincing timpani roll and violin trill (I don't mean the tremolo) in GPO4? I've tried all sorts of methods, but none sound correct to me.

    Using Cubase 5.1.

    Thanks,
    Steve

  2. #2

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Hi, Steve

    Awhile back someone had the same question about doing a Tympani roll, so I put together this example:

    Tympani Roll

    I'll try to find the thread because I outlined how I did it.

    And I'll put together a demo of doing a Violin trill, and be back with that.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Here - Found the thread about the Tymp roll - look down a few posts and you'll see my description of how I do that.

    Tymp Roll instructions

    I'll be back when I have a Violin trill for you.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Steve, here's a quickly improvised demo of a violin trill in Aria. Hopefully this will be the kind of thing you want to do:

    Violin Trill

    That was done using the 2nd violin solo, with Auto Legato ON. When AL is turned on, it automatically makes the instrument play monophonically, and that's the only mode where you have playable trills. Simply hold the first note down and rapidly play 32nd notes (approximately) on the next note for the trill. The first note has to be continuously held down while you play the trill.

    Other than that, I had the Ambience set to Recital Hall 1, a slight amount dialed in on the violin's Send knob, I added a few touches of pitch bend, and of course performed with the mod wheel for volume data (CC1).

    Let me know if these little demos show you what you wanted.

    Randy

  5. #5

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Hi Randy,

    Thanks for sharing your Sonar/Aria work. I am working on making a reasonable trill too, but using the Violin 1 Solo KS sample, which gives a sort of 'playable' whole step trill with the B1 key switch.

    Not so smooth as yours yet. Are you saying we really have to go monophonic with AL as suggested?

    Too late to fire up Sonar here now (early hours) but will try tomorrow..
    Richard
    Hong Kong
    ---------------
    Sonar 8PE, EWQLSO, GPO4, M-tron, Omnisphere, & VSM.
    Fantom XR and Radias modules.

  6. #6

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Thanks so much for your time and help rbowser - very good of you. I use Cubase 5.1, but get the general idea. I'll have a go at these tomorrow.

    Again, many thanks,
    Steve
    Steve Milward
    Cubase 5.1/GPO4/Trilogy/Saxlab/Halion 2/Groove Agent 2/Many Soft Synths/SM58
    http://www.milward.org.uk/music

  7. #7

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Hello Steve and Richard

    Richard, GPO does have those "playable trills" - besides the whole step trill on B you mentioned, there's a 1/2 step trill on A.

    But I've never used those, and haven't ever understood the best way to use them. What's awkward is that when you let go of a key, then it goes to the 1/2 or whole step for the trill--OK, fine, so you're supposed to hit the one key repeatedly - but it ends on the higher note instead of the base note. - How that can be smoothly used has always escaped me.

    This way of doing trills that I described is only now available with the Auto Legato function in Aria. As a Beta tester I got excited when I saw that real for-goodness old-fashioned trills could be played this way - that was a standard thing on the old hardware synths of 10 and 20 years ago.

    So yes, AL always switches an instrument to mono mode. We don't have a choice about that, it's the way AL works. But don't forget that AL is turned off and on with MIDI CC102. So if you need your violin polyphonic for a section, leave AL off. If you want Auto Legato for an appropriate passage, or want to add a trill, turn AL on just temporarily with CC102. That's slick.

    Steve
    , I saw that you use Cubase while I use Sonar - I figured you could adapt what I posted as needed. The basic thing with the Tympani Roll is playing those two different samples which are two octaves apart, as fast as you can. You probably have a length filter like I described using in Sonar. Reducing the playing time of a clip to half is a very neat trick to make your roll faster. Whatever you do, don't insert the notes by hand with a quantizing grid on. It's the precision of quantized 32nd notes that kills the believability in notation rolls. And then of course you have velocity editing in Cubase--that's one of The biggest ingredients in the roll recipe--gotta sweep those velocity values around to get your crescendo.

    Turning AL on for the violin trill is something else that of course will be the same in Cubase.

    So, hope you get the results you want with both those things.

    Randy

  8. #8
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    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    .. What's awkward is that when you let go of a key, then it goes to the 1/2 or whole step for the trill--OK, fine, so you're supposed to hit the one key repeatedly - but it ends on the higher note instead of the base note. - How that can be smoothly used has always escaped me.
    I've discovered that, so long as I release (or replace) the keyswitch before releasing the last-played note of the trill, the (unwanted) 1/2 or full step doesn't play on release, so it is possible .
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

  9. #9

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    Quote Originally Posted by vic_france View Post
    I've discovered that, so long as I release (or replace) the keyswitch before releasing the last-played note of the trill, the (unwanted) 1/2 or full step doesn't play on release, so it is possible .
    Hi, Vic - Excellent, that makes sense. I do have to say that the trills now possible with AL are more flexible and convincing sounding, so I doubt if I'll be using the KS trills, but your solution in using those is very logical. Thanks!

    Randy

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Paris, France
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    349

    Re: GPO4: Timpani Roll and Violin Trill

    It's great that GPO4 gives us the choice (I'm more and more impressed with it! ), and the fact that AL can be toggled via CC#102 for the standard versions (and CC# 68 for the notation versions ... why not the same CC# for both?), so it is easy to toggle it mid-performance.
    The only problem I have with trilling via either method, is that the samples already contain vibrato, which wouldn't happen in real life.
    Cubase 5.1 | Cubase 4.5.2 | Digital Performer 7.0 | Mac OSX 10.5.8 || Mac "MDD" dual 1GB | 1.75GB RAM | MOTU PCI-424/2408mk3 | MOTU MidiTimepice AV

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