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Topic: Where is the Options Panel?

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  1. #1

    Where is the Options Panel?

    The GPO4 manual (p.157) tells me that, in order to use CC7, I must activate it in the Options Panel.

    Where would I find that?
    Martin
    Canberra, Australia

  2. #2

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    Hi, Martin

    Really good question, because I do believe you've found an error in the manual.

    Before replying, I double checked things with Aria inserted in Sonar to make sure I steer you right with the answer:

    --The manual says that CC7 (static volume) and CC10 (panning) are turned off by default and so must be activated in the apparently non-existent "Options" panel.

    --In actuality, both CCs are already in operation without the user doing anything.

    To check this, I opened Aria in Sonar, and with an Aria MIDI track selected, I moved my keyboard's volume control. As expected, the track's volume fader in the Aria mixer moved up and down. Next I programmed my wheel to send CC10 - and the panning knob in Aria moved back and forth correspondingly.

    NOTE: - You don't want to use CC7 for dynamic volume control over the course of a piece. Only use it to set the potential volume of an instrument in Aria. CC1 is still what you need to use for dynamic control of your instruments.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    You are 100% right Randy. I think someone has done a 'search and replace' on old GPO manual (p101) replacing the word 'Kontakt Player' with 'Aria'.

    Thankfully the sentences about Kontakt Player being a pain in the backside didn't make it to the new manual else that wouldn't have read very well.

  4. #4

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    Hi Randy.

    Many thanks for your reply.

    In fact, I had already checked that CC7 was working with DP6 (like you did) some time ago. I have been putting together a simple DAW-style host so that I can experiment with algorithmically produced music. Aria responds to all its other messages (well, the ones I've tried so far) except CC7. That led me to the manual and to my rather premature post. I think it must have been too late at night! The problem's obviously in my code somewhere.

    Well, at least I may have been some help with the proof-reading for the next iteration.

    (Yes, I only use CC7 at the beginning of a piece to reset Aria's default volume settings to ones that I prefer.)
    Martin
    Canberra, Australia

  5. #5

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    ... and slightly OT ...

    I often feel the need of two mod wheel controls. Working in a DAW, I want to sculpt individual notes and also sculpt the changing dynamics through a phrase. These are really two different things, but one has to think of them together and sort of multiply the two things in ones head as one goes, or else do the individual notes first and then go through adjusting for phrase dynamics afterwards (or vice versa). I have been considering employing another unused CC for this purpose and making a simple gizmo that will simply multiply CC1 by it.

    However, is there any *good* reason not to use CC7 for this purpose? It's a CC, so should be sample-accurate. If changing CC7 caused Aria to do some kind of major internal re-think, it would be best avoided, but that doesn't seem likely to me.
    Martin
    Canberra, Australia

  6. #6

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    I think you can use CC7 for main phrase control, just be carefull with the clipping. CC1 or CC11 is better for the note sculpting, since you have a tone change using it. CC7 dont make any tone change, afaik, in the sound, it only makes things louder&softer.
    Marcelo Colina

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Just north of Sydney
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    272

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    Gday,

    In deed, as Randy says, C7 is only for setting the basic volume level of the instrument. CC1 and CC11 are for dynamic control. If CC1 is for instance set to 64, CC11 should control the 50 % CC1 setting in 128 further steps.

    What I don’t know and what would be of major interest to me would be to know how the CC value relates to level. Is it meant to be a linear relationship, a log function? I did some tests with GPO. The relationship was not linear.

    Can somebody help? It would be a simple matter to set CC1 and C7 to known values and use CC11 and velocity for dynamic control.

    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

  8. #8

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    Herbert,

    CC#11 is an alternate to CC#1, so does not operate as you suggest. I believe CC#11 (and CC#7) were implemented in GPO4 for standardization purposes, as some folks are well used to the CC#11/CC#7 combination.

    If we use CC#1 and CC#11 at the same time I am not sure what would happen though. Maybe GPO4 would take CC#1 as priority and ignore CC#11. Or maybe just take the last instance of either? Will test to find out.

    Above as per reading of manual, and some playing with CC#7 and CC#11. Could be wrong, as parts of any manual are prone to be.

    On levels, I found some useful info in the Sibelius notation program manual. They have a linear-like relationship between velocity and dynamics (and attack). For example ppp=20/15 (dynamics/attack), pp=39/30, p=61/50, mp=71/60, mf=84/75,f=98/90, ff=113/105, and fff=127/119.

    Hope that helps a little. The Sibelius info helps in interpreting the MIDI files it generates. Other rules in their payback dictionary for cresc/decres, staccato, etc. Good reading.
    Richard
    Hong Kong
    ---------------
    Sonar 8PE, EWQLSO, GPO4, M-tron, Omnisphere, & VSM.
    Fantom XR and Radias modules.

  9. #9

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    Interesting discussion on this thread.

    I want to elaborate on some things already said--First being that you are correct, RichardHK - As it says in the manuals, users need to be aware that they shouldn't use CC1 and CC11 at the same time--or CC2 (breath volume control) at the same time, because those are all volume controllers which would end up competing with each other. It's a horrible sound you can get when two different data tracks of volume control are trying to drive an instrument - I've done that by accident once in awhile. The results are like the instruments are gargling with razor blades.

    Going back to your question Martin about wanting more complete control--over individual instruments as well as ensemble passages where a group curve is needed===I understand what you mean, and this is exactly where the power of a "DAW"--a sequencer comes in.

    You've been cautioned that to use CC7 as a continuous volume controller isn't a good idea because you're only raising the volume up and down, while CC1 also changes the timbre of instruments in proportion with their volume. Heavy use of CC7 can sound exactly like what it is--a volume knob being turned up and down.

    HOWEVER - back to my statement that what you want to do is exactly where the power of a sequencer comes in. Writing a brief description of my basic work flow will show you what I mean:

    ---I record all my MIDI tracks, doing everything I can to make each instrument "expressive." Lots of CC1 control plus whatever other MIDI controllers I want/need for a project.

    ---After I've done that work with all the instruments, this is only the roughed in version of the project as a whole because there are always many places where the dynamics of phrases and of sections aren't sufficiently dynamic. I need to work with instruments as groups now.

    --All MIDI tracks are bounced to Audio, where much greater detail work can be done not only with volume but with all aspects of a recording. Some people keep working with the invisible tracks in ther audio tracks that pair up with MIDI tracks in a sequencer, but many people, myself included, insist on seeing the wave form--Seeing the peaks and valleys of a wave form make fine detailed and precise editing more possible.

    --I record automation for all audio tracks, punching up the dynamics so they're even more "sculpted" than they were in MIDI.

    --In Sonar's mixer (Console View) often I will group instruments together. All the strings are routed to a String bus, and then that bus is routed to the master. NOW with that bus in place, I'm able to have phrases with the strings vary their volume the way I need - The whole group of strings can sweep in together, they can retreat to a low level in unison etc. There IS a limit to how effective working with the group volume can be - my ears let me know when it's not sounding natural. And of course the Bus's fader is also automated.

    --Note that there's no danger of instruments becoming TOO much in unsion, because they've each been individually recorded. If I have a passage where a solo vioin, for instance, needs to remain above the other strings--fine, that volume difference can be recorded, automated, in the violin's track.

    There's more I could say--But I hope you get the picture. I'm saying that you are doing great, Martin, with all the dynamic work with your instrumetns. Now you don't need a "second wheel" as you suggested - You need to use the rest of your sequencer which is the AUDIO side of it. All the phrase control you're wanting is available to you that way - I guarantee it's what works, and it's basically the way "The Pros" do it.

    Randy

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Just north of Sydney
    Posts
    272

    Re: Where is the Options Panel?

    Gday,

    Richard, you are right in your understanding about the way CC11 works. Martin has only one controller for controlling dynamics and will have to make up his gizmo.

    Herbert
    GPO, JABB, CMB, GWI, GOFRILLER, HALION PLAYER, ACCORDIONS by E Tarilonte
    Cubase 6, Notation Composer, VSTHost, GoldWave audio editor.

    Interests:
    Good Food, Gemütlichkeit, Wein Weib und Gesang – History, Politics, Civil Law –
    Electronics, Software Development, Physics – Plant Physiology, Creative Horticulture –
    Photography, Painting, Wood Working - Midi Orchestration, Music, Music, und Musik …

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