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Topic: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

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  1. #1

    Question Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Greetings
    Using SONAR 7 (SONAR 8.5 soon!)
    I am trying to find a way to have different GPO4 instruments fade in or out ( attack, Decay) at different rates. (without using external pedals)

    Attack and Decay settings
    Example:
    Piano + Slow Fade in String Section

    Using KONTAKT3 I can set the Attack and Decay parameters for each instrument.
    the strings in this case will fade in after the initial piano has sounded.

    Is there a way to do this with GPO4, or perhaps this can be controlled in Sonar?

    Any suggestions for going about this in a post production is also welcom, although my goal is to perfom this live.

    Cheers!

  2. #2

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Hi, Sadicus - "...my goal is to perfom this live..." Do you mean literally a live performance in front of an audience?

    The kind of control you're talking about isn't available in GPO4/Aria. The only fading in and out that can be done is via mod wheel, CC1. In post production of course there's lots you can do with audio files in Sonar.

    Randy

  3. #3

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Hi Randy,
    yes Live performance.
    I am building up a set of original music to play from an electric / acoustic guitar.

    Equipment
    • Laptop - Sonar 8.5, GPO4, (or Kontakt3)
    • two controll pedals
    • Godin Multiac ACS SA
    • Roland GI-20
    • MOTU 828 (or portible ID)
    • Active Speaker
    If anyone has experiance with this type of live setup, please post any advice.


  4. #4

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Can you split the incoming MIDI signas and apply transformers? Then you could put a piano sound on channel 1 and GPO strings on channel 2, and then set the velocity of the MIDI data on channel to fixed to 1 (or some other very low value, since velocity controls attack speed). With the mod wheel on channel 2 you can control the volume of the strings.

  5. #5

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Not sure what your controller is, but why not just use the Sonar ACT and have a controller fader for each of your string and piano tracks? Or use fader on a bus or output?

    Internally, you can use CC#7 as an overall volume control for each Aria track and simply draw them into the Sonar controller lane for each channel.
    Richard
    Hong Kong
    ---------------
    Sonar 8PE, EWQLSO, GPO4, M-tron, Omnisphere, & VSM.
    Fantom XR and Radias modules.

  6. #6

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardHK View Post
    Not sure what your controller is, but why not just use the Sonar ACT and have a controller fader for each of your string and piano tracks? Or use fader on a bus or output?
    I think the problem is that like this the piano velocity (and thus piano volume) controls the string attack speed, and he wants it slow.

  7. #7

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Quote Originally Posted by FLWrd View Post
    I think the problem is that like this the piano velocity (and thus piano volume) controls the string attack speed, and he wants it slow.
    Ok but still at a loss here. I can see your earlier advice would work, as perhaps using the CC#1 or CC#11 on each track to control attack via a fade.

    Never dawned on me that the piano and strings would be combined into one track. GPO4 doesn't have that combo (?). As long as separate tracks have different MIDI channels, no problem. Right??
    Richard
    Hong Kong
    ---------------
    Sonar 8PE, EWQLSO, GPO4, M-tron, Omnisphere, & VSM.
    Fantom XR and Radias modules.

  8. #8

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    He wants to control them from a single keyboard playing the same notes. I know the patch well. I've got it on my old Kurzweil Micropiano, on a Roland JV module, and on my Yamaha keyboard. It's a reasonably sophisticated sound if you can control it well, and simply layering GPO instruments is not going to do what he wants. You can hear the idea (rather bad sounding) in this YouTube video. The problem lies in fixing the strings' attack speed and volume.

  9. #9

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    Gotcha... Thanks for taking time to enlighten me. So obvious now! Randy's post covers it well. It's a patch thing, and GPO4 doesn't have the envelope control to achieve this live. Programming every note would certainly be a pain. Can do this on my desktop (EWQLSO) but not on my notebook which is where GPO reigns supreme.
    Richard
    Hong Kong
    ---------------
    Sonar 8PE, EWQLSO, GPO4, M-tron, Omnisphere, & VSM.
    Fantom XR and Radias modules.

  10. #10

    Re: Piano+Slow Fade in Strings?

    You could also edit the Attack parameters of a Strings SFZ file (making a backup copy, of course). It's kind of tedious, but would give you the delay in attack you're looking for. As far as I know, you can't modulate it on the fly in Aria yet.

    To do this:
    0) Make a backup file of the sfz file you plan to edit.
    1) Open Notepad or your favorite text editor (on Vista, make sure you're Run it as Administrator.
    2) Open the sfz file of the strings (I used the Lush one). You find this in Garritan/Personal Orchestra/Instruments/...
    3) For each <Group> heading, you'll see the line "ampeg_attack" several lines below. You want to change these values from 0.14... to something closer to 1.0. (This is the envelope fade in time in seconds). There are several groups: one for the sustain, one for legato playing, one for the accented start, one for portamento, and also possibly others.
    4) Save in Notepad (on Vista you need to be running as Admin to save to a Program Files directory)
    5) You can have Aria open as you tweak the file. Once you save the sfz, hit reload on the patch in Aria to hear your changes reflected when you play.

    With this method, there's less fussing with a controller during live performance.

    You can also create the sfz as a whole new instrument, but you'll also need to edit the relevant xml file in the Banks directory to add it there in order for everything to work properly.

    Hope this helps,

    Reegs

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