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Topic: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

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  1. #1

    Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Hi,
    Mike I am using the pmpm ver 2 multi and I am having timing issues with Jabb/Gpo. I play a note and there is a slight delay on any instument I play. How can I correct this? Is it a latency issue? I am using Sonar 7, K2 player 2.2.4.001, XP pro, Amd dual core 4 gig ram.
    Thanks for any help,
    GsPop
    P.S.
    I just donated and now waiting for link for Ver 3 PMPM hopefully this will fix the problem.

  2. #2

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    Hi,
    Mike I am using the pmpm ver 2 multi and I am having timing issues with Jabb/Gpo. I play a note and there is a slight delay on any instument I play. How can I correct this? Is it a latency issue? I am using Sonar 7, K2 player 2.2.4.001, XP pro, Amd dual core 4 gig ram.
    Thanks for any help,
    GsPop
    P.S.
    I just donated and now waiting for link for Ver 3 PMPM hopefully this will fix the problem.
    Hi GsPop

    Thanks for your subscription -
    The scripting in the multis plays with note timings as part of the humanization process. For live play it is best to turn the scripting off by sending a cc119 message with a value of 127. This can be set on a channel by channel basis so for example if recording a trumpet on channel 4 scripting can be bypassed on that channel only, channels 1-3, 5-16 will play back using the scripting. The scripting can then be turned back on by sending a cc119 with a value less then 127 for subsequent playback of the recorded track

  3. #3

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Thanks Mike for the quick reply it's starting to make sense. 2 Questions
    1- Is there a way to controll how much latency/timing?

    2-is there a way to record all the fader movements as controller data so it can be tweaked.

    3-Do I unisnatall the old PMPM multis, PMPM .tga or will those work?

    4-I just installed PMPM 3 following the directions on your site and the multis do not show up in the user mutlis K2player, I just load them from the load/save tab. Just want you to be aware there may be some issues.

    Thanks looking foward to trying out the new pmpm,
    GsPop

  4. #4

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    Thanks Mike for the quick reply it's starting to make sense. 2 Questions
    1- Is there a way to controll how much latency/timing?
    Lower cc11 values have greater timing variations along with more pronounced legato phrasing, higher cc11 values will have diminished timing variations but with more staccato phrasing.
    I'm contemplating the ability to just turn off the timing variation allowing for the automation of the other supported parameters for live play in the next version

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    2-is there a way to record all the fader movements as controller data so it can be tweaked.
    The K2/K3 player can output midi data including the generated midi data with their midi out settings, however there seems to be a bug as generated note off messages do not seem to be output. Short answer - no

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    3-Do I unisnatall the old PMPM multis, PMPM .tga or will those work?
    No need to uninstall the old multis, but keep in mind if used they will include the old scripts


    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    4-I just installed PMPM 3 following the directions on your site and the multis do not show up in the user mutlis K2player, I just load them from the load/save tab. Just want you to be aware there may be some issues.
    The folder you installed the multis (C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Kontakt Player 2\UserPatches\ by default) should match the Library Path setting under the Load tab in the K2 Players options dialog

    Thanks again for your support

  5. #5

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Hi Mike,
    A few more questions.
    1-cc11 is a bit confusing. How do I utilize this? if you can give me an example it would be great. I am using a midi controller BFC2000 & sonar 7.

    2-Some of the scripts knobs seem to move erratically, for ex. tpt ks the flutter moves super fast and always goes back to 0. Is there a way to reset/fix them?

    3-Can these multis be used with the full K2?

    4-The multis load up and are really loud and I hear static. What can I do to fix this? Are these (ks)patches you developed?

    5-How do I select KS? Do I use a midi note?

    I'm done for now I hope these questions make sense & I am really excited to start using this great script.

    Thanks,
    GsPop

  6. #6

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    Hi Mike,
    A few more questions.
    1-cc11 is a bit confusing. How do I utilize this? if you can give me an example it would be great. I am using a midi controller BFC2000 & sonar 7.
    Typically with Sonar you would draw in cc11 values in the piano roll view for legato instruments either 1 value per channel for the whole composition or on a phrase by phrase basis. Want a softer smoother phrasing - use a low cc11 setting. Want a harsher clipped phrasing - use a high cc11 setting. Most keyboard controllers have a jack for an expression pedal usually assigned to cc11. With desktop controllers a fader can be assigned to cc11.

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    2-Some of the scripts knobs seem to move erratically, for ex. tpt ks the flutter moves super fast and always goes back to 0. Is there a way to reset/fix them?
    Yes, setting these values in Sonar will over ride the scripts automation. So for example you can set cc12 with a low value so low cc11 settings will have less breath noise. The Trumpet flutter is a special case and the action you describe is by design, it uses the flutter on the attack only of the notes trying for a more realistic articulation

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    3-Can these multis be used with the full K2?
    Yes - Both K2 & K3 Full & Player

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    4-The multis load up and are really loud and I hear static. What can I do to fix this? Are these (ks)patches you developed?
    You can adjust the max volume and whether the instrument responds to cc7 within the K2 Player
    Yes, the KS instruments are combined JABB instruments, similar to the Saxophone KS instruments

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    5-How do I select KS? Do I use a midi note?
    You can use a midi note or program change message. Presets are documented here

  7. #7

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Hi Mike,
    Thanks for getting back so quickly your really clearing things up. I do have a couple more questions and then I think i'm done.
    1-ex. I load up the jabb essential KS multi (I think that's what its called). When I paly the upright bass none of the knobs are responding/moving. Then I try saxs Ks again nothing responds/moves. I then remember to send PC changes for the bass - I send #33 & sax # 67(?).Now on bass patch its a fretless bass so I than need to send/record midi note to select proper KS for the upright bass sound. When I paly that bass patch it is now upbass but only 1 knob is responding/moving var 2. Same thing with Sax and others patches I try. How do I fix this? How do I get all the appropriate/correct knobs to respond? If I start sending individual CC's doen't that defeat the purpose of the PMPM?

    2-When I load brush drum kit aftertouch does not controll brushes, How do I fix This?

    3-cc #68 is sustain correct? when I pull a n-piano patch and use controller #68 it does not sustain what am missing?

    4-You seem to a midi guru is there a list of all the CC's and what they do. I printed out your midi implementatiion chart and I don't see all the CC's like cc3 or 6 for timing? or cc 29 for velocity? I found these after findind some of your old posts.

    Thanks for your help I know i'm close to figuring out. I Love your script it's brilliant! I can't wait till it's working 100 percent!
    GsPop

  8. #8

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by GsPop View Post
    Hi Mike,
    Thanks for getting back so quickly your really clearing things up. I do have a couple more questions and then I think i'm done.
    1-ex. I load up the jabb essential KS multi (I think that's what its called). When I paly the upright bass none of the knobs are responding/moving. Then I try saxs Ks again nothing responds/moves. I then remember to send PC changes for the bass - I send #33 & sax # 67(?).Now on bass patch its a fretless bass so I than need to send/record midi note to select proper KS for the upright bass sound. When I paly that bass patch it is now upbass but only 1 knob is responding/moving var 2. Same thing with Sax and others patches I try. How do I fix this? How do I get all the appropriate/correct knobs to respond? If I start sending individual CC's doen't that defeat the purpose of the PMPM?
    Two issues - 1st Sonar 's Program Change is zero based so subtract one from the chart. Upright bass is 32, Tenor Sax is 66. Only a program change will set up the instrument, the midi note KS can be used after the initial Program change message to switch instruments as the midi note message does not set instrument parameters
    2nd Some cc11 value is required without it very little automation will occur. This version of the Multi only requires setting the instrument with a program change and providing a cc11 setting - all else is automated based on these 2 settings

    2-When I load brush drum kit aftertouch does not controll brushes, How do I fix This?
    Brush swishes are automated - if you want to control swishes with aftertouch you can disable automation for the brushes

    3-cc #68 is sustain correct? when I pull a n-piano patch and use controller #68 it does not sustain what am missing?
    Use cc64 for the legato pedal controller

    4-You seem to a midi guru is there a list of all the CC's and what they do. I printed out your midi implementatiion chart and I don't see all the CC's like cc3 or 6 for timing? or cc 29 for velocity? I found these after findind some of your old posts.
    There has been a continuing genesis of the multi's to a true plug and play interface. Therefore the scripting is different between versions and there are incompatibilities in the documentation between versions. The next version will automate cc11 and not require program change for the predefined multis

  9. #9

    Re: Timing &The Phrase Modeled Performance

    Thanks Mike !

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