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Topic: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

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  1. #1

    Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Howdy

    I have a very fine 73 key, 1976 DynoMyPiano (w/ ProEQ). This particular piano has been sampled and used in various synth modules over the years. However, memory limitations in ROMplers don\'t really do this or any other instrument justice. Therefore, I\'m considering doing a \"comprehensive\" DynoMyPiano Giga library.

    I would prefer to sample at 24/96 and dither/sample rate convert as necessary. However, I may run two recording rigs simultaneously: one at 16/44 and one at 24/96 to avoid any SRC artifacts. I\'m also considering are direct AND mic\'ed speaker (the bottom of my non-Dyno \'76 Suitcase) versions for the library.

    So my question is, what elements of the piano would you like hear in this library? Dynamic release velocities? Sustain pedal up and down noise? The sound of a groin pulling as you try to stand it on its legs by yourself (available on a separate channel of course)?

    Thanks for your time.

    ------------------
    Nate Tschetter
    Sonic Taxidermist
    www.gluethemoose.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member Bruce A. Richardson's Avatar
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    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nate Tschetter:
    Howdy

    I have a very fine 73 key, 1976 DynoMyPiano (w/ ProEQ). This particular piano has been sampled and used in various synth modules over the years. However, memory limitations in ROMplers don\'t really do this or any other instrument justice. Therefore, I\'m considering doing a \"comprehensive\" DynoMyPiano Giga library.

    I would prefer to sample at 24/96 and dither/sample rate convert as necessary. However, I may run two recording rigs simultaneously: one at 16/44 and one at 24/96 to avoid any SRC artifacts. I\'m also considering are direct AND mic\'ed speaker (the bottom of my non-Dyno \'76 Suitcase) versions for the library.

    So my question is, what elements of the piano would you like hear in this library? Dynamic release velocities? Sustain pedal up and down noise? The sound of a groin pulling as you try to stand it on its legs by yourself (available on a separate channel of course)?

    Thanks for your time.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Yeah man. All of the above. You don\'t need to include the groin pull, I\'ve set these babies up many a time myself, even dragged a few upstairs. Haha, there\'s always that realization that no matter how heavy you remembered it was, it feels even slightly heavier than that.

    I\'d sample it as deep as possible, getting lots of soft/med layers and of course, a good bark on every note. Release samples all the way...nobody has done a Rhodes with release samples yet, and it\'s definitely worth it to get them.

    Personally, I\'d do only pedal-down samples for the sustain, and graft the releases onto those. That way, you\'d get a little more resonance. I don\'t think it\'s worth losing a dimension to do the pedal up samples...the difference is so subtle that I think you\'d just be wasting the opportunity to cover the instrument with more layers.

    MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU. I have always hoped somebody had a killer Dyno rig, and would step up to sample it.

    Also, definitely the speakers. To me, that\'s what says \"rhodes\" to this day...the sound of vibrating cardboard. If you have access to a Neumann SM-69, I would run it in x/y mode about three feet from the cabinet and see how that goes.

    If you do one direct as well, try an Avalon preamp and see how that goes...I forget the exact model number, maybe someone can chime in. The one everyone uses for bass direct is the one I\'m speaking of. That is a killer preamp for Rhodes.

    Whoooo baby. Good luck.


  3. #3

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Nate,

    Sounds like a cool project. Personally, I would never sample for a library at 16 bit, you will really be compromising your ability to process the samples (you will damage the quality just normalizing samples). In fact I\'m surprised you even proposed it, don\'t take this the wrong way, but even if you have a good bit of recording experience it wouldn\'t hurt to hire a good recording engineer when you lay down the master recordings. You won\'t damage your quality by reducing 24 or 32 bits to 16 (as compared to recording at 16). Also, if you do have access to higher rate gear (I\'ve never used 88 or 96K gear) I bet you get better SRC to 44 (which most of us probably prefer) by going with 88K.

    Check out Xsample if you want to see your competition, they\'ve got a good instrument, good recording, superior programming, I think it\'s probably the best yet. 4 velo layers really isn\'t enough for an EP in my opinion, the tone progression with velocity is everything and is even less fakable with filtering than a real piano. I suspect an EP doesn\'t gain anything with pedal up + down samples (I could be wrong) and I\'ve never heard release samples I like tho I seem to be in the minority here.

    I don\'t know this for certain, but I suspect I would prefer a DI\'d sound, since I have my own FX, speakers, and speaker sims; probably harder to apply these to a mic\'d cabinet sample, and there have been so many recorded sounds that I wonder if a mic\'d cabinet could get me there. Might not matter tho if the sound is really good.

    ps there weren\'t that many dyno\'d Rhodes were there? Other than samples was yours ever recorded on something I may have?


    [This message has been edited by Sam (edited 09-04-2001).]

  4. #4

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Bruce wrote:
    If you do one direct as well, try an Avalon preamp and see how that goes...I forget the exact model number, maybe someone can chime in. The one everyone uses for bass direct is the one I\'m speaking of. That is a killer preamp for Rhodes.


    That would be the Avalon U5 Direct-in Preamp. Love the sound of the suitcase\'s stereo (slightly phased) vibrato too...talk about surround sound!

  5. #5

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Howdy

    Hey guys, thanks for the replies. Here\'s a few answers, comments and questions to the replies.

    Bruce, good advice on the layers. The last time we sampled it, they were trying to go for 7 velocity layers. When I talked to the guy who sampled it with me, he later said that they could\'ve use even more variation.

    As far as using an SM69, I hadn\'t really considered recording it in stereo. Certainly, that is a possibility but what holds me back is that when I see \"stereo\" I expect some sort of \"stero field\" modulation whether its panning, chorus, etc. I\'d love to have samples of the tremolo but what speed, depth, how to keep them all in sync, etc.

    Still, a stereo non-tremolo sound might be cool too so I\'ll experiment. Perhaps I can record several mix combinations simultaneously. A close dynamic jammed into the speaker, a stereo mic a few feet back (I was thinking of a Royer SF12) perhaps even a distant room mic.

    For DI, yeah, the Avalon is nice. I was also thinking of the Eclair Evil Twin (http://www.mercenary.com/evtwinmod90.html). For the pres on the mics, I\'d have one \"clean\" set and one \"dirty\" set. Perhaps a Great River MP2H for clean and a Manley VoxBox or UA 2-610 for the dirty.

    Sam, you\'re right, I should just sample at 24-bit and leave it. Also, hiring an engineer to get everything happening is a good call as we will have enough to do without worrying about which end the mic plugs into.

    This particular piano has been used in many of Yamaha\'s keyboards. I kind of figured instead of having to have them come and get something from it for a specific project, why not do a comprehensive sampling session on my own and be able to provide them (or anyone) what they need without spending weeks sampling it over and over.

    As far as it being on recordings, I don\'t know. I bought it from my friend Matt Harris quite a few years ago. He\'s a very fine keyboard player and probably used it out on the road and on sessions over the years. I have quite a few demo and indy label things I\'ve played it on...I can probably dig up a link to something.

    The funny thing is, the Dyno is the EXACT opposite of my Suitcase and they\'re both the same year. The Dyno is bright, clear, clean and hot. The Suitcase is dull, muddy, dirty and low. However, the Suitcase is CHUNKY and SASSY. I\'d sample it, but I think there are other Suitcase libraries around and it would require quite a bit of TLC to be as good as the Dyno.

    Thanks for the input!

  6. #6

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Clearly you want lots of velocity layers for the samples. I bet it\'s a real bear getting 8 or more velocities recorded. You\'ll probably go kooky in the sampling process trying to capture all the voice transitions, and you\'ll probably go kooky again trying to match em up when you\'re auditioning/ editing. Glad it\'s you and not me!

    As long as the transitions on any particular key are good, I bet you can get away with a lot, because most EP\'s are so inconsistent key to key.

  7. #7

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Oh man, I\'m already so far past kooky that the light from kooky will take one billion years to reach me.

  8. #8

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Good luck with the sampling, Nate!

    BTW, do you play piano for Matt over at CSUN?...I took big-band arranging from him and learned how to kick some serious brass! The guy\'s awesome.
    Neal

  9. #9

    Re: Planning a DynoMyPiano Rhodes Library

    Hi Neal

    I met Matt during a Yamaha project about (gasp) ten years ago.

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