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Topic: Phasing on drum in Aria

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  1. #1

    Unhappy Phasing on drum in Aria

    Hi!

    I have begun to use Ariaplayer for GPO and like it.
    BUT! When I put Basic Orchestra Percussion on one
    channel (and make the snare play)and Snare KS on
    another playing the same rythm there is a "phasing"
    sound - I dont like it! How to make it disappear?

    Regards
    TompaD

  2. #2

    Re: Phasing on drum in Aria

    Hello, Tompa

    "...How to make it disappear?..."


    Don't double the snares up like that. You will always have phasing when the same instrument is playing at the same time as a copy of it. There's no need to do that. - If you're trying to get the snare louder, use only the Snare KS so you have independent control over its volume.

    Randy B.

  3. #3

    Re: Phasing on drum in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hello, Tompa

    "...How to make it disappear?..."


    Don't double the snares up like that. You will always have phasing when the same instrument is playing at the same time as a copy of it. There's no need to do that. - If you're trying to get the snare louder, use only the Snare KS so you have independent control over its volume.
    I dont want it to sound louder - I want it to sound like many players.
    I dont get it...if I make the same thing with strings I get no phasing.
    Every channel should act like a different player shouldn't it?

    Regards
    TompaD

  4. #4

    Re: Phasing on drum in Aria

    Hello again, Tompa - Thanks for the reply.

    "...- I want it to sound like many players..."

    OH, I see. Thanks for explaining. I couldn't understand what you were trying to do.

    Well, this isn't the way to get what you want. As long as you have the two snares being triggered at the same time, I guarantee you'll get nothing but that phasing sound.

    To sound like many players, you need many tracks. Each one is slightly different so the timing isn't perfect. None of the notes should be playing at the same time. Detune each snare slightly so none are exactly the same pitch.

    If you think you'll get a satisfactory sound with an easier, less time consuming approach, you will be dissatisfied with the results.

    The very best way to do this is to record multiple tracks to audio and work in your mixer. I've need multiple snares several times and with some work, as per the above, have gotten good results.

    Randy B.

  5. #5

    Re: Phasing on drum in Aria

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Hello again, Tompa - Thanks for the reply.

    Well, this isn't the way to get what you want. As long as you have the two snares being triggered at the same time, I guarantee you'll get nothing but that phasing sound.
    But why? I cant hear the same effect with soloviolins on different tracks - do I?


    To sound like many players, you need many tracks.
    Do you mean that I need more than 2 tracks ?
    Each one is slightly different so the timing isn't perfect. None of the notes should be playing at the same time. Detune each snare slightly so none are exactly the same pitch.
    Yeah, this is how I is thinking to - thought that using Var 1 and 2 in different positions should do the trick in AriaPlayer.


    TompaD

  6. #6

    Re: Phasing on drum in Aria

    Hello again, Tompa

    I've several years of experience with the Garritan Libraries, and many more years of MIDI experience before that, so I'm giving you the good info. I don't want to give the impression that I'm wanting to keep up a prolonged discussion, and I'm sure you can appreciate that. My suggestion is that you get into your music app and start trying out what I'm passing on to you.

    I'm a musician, so use a "sequencer"-Sonar to be exact. If you're using a notation program, I know it's much harder to get good sounding results, and doing things like adding multiple tracks isn't as straight-forward a proposition - So I'm hoping you're using a DAW app. If you're not, you can still adapt what I'm saying.

    "...But why? I cant hear the same effect with soloviolins on different tracks - do I?..."

    Actually, there's some phasing involved whenever you use instruments which are derived from the same samples. That's why the GPO manuals make a big point of not using a Player version of an instrument in conjunction with the Solo instrument that Player is derived from. So if things are done incorrectly, you get phasing on solo violins also.

    But there's a very unique, particular phasing sound that happens with snare drums. You simply Can Not have two snares being triggered at the same time and not expect phasing.

    "...Do you mean that I need more than 2 tracks ?..."

    Yes, at least 3 or 4 tracks, more if you can manage. What will help is if you think more in terms of your virtual instruments as being directly analogous to live musicians. You want a whole snare section? How many percussionists would you like to see in that section if it's a real life situation? 2 snares? Then use 2. But if you really want a section, then have as many snares as you would like to see in real life. Trying to do short cut tricks, faking the cumulative effect can make for a sound which isn't as convincing, not as musical.

    "...Yeah, this is how I is thinking to - thought that using Var 1 and 2 in different positions should do the trick in AriaPlayer..."

    No. The main key to the effect you want is for NONE of the notes on the various snare tracks to be starting at exactly the same time. That's the only way to get the sound of real players, because it's literally impossible for musicians of any kind to start at absolutely the same time. That variation in timing is what will make your snare section--or ANy section of your orchestra come to life.

    Move the notes slightly, with the quantization grid turned off so you're not stuck with absolute off-sets like 32nd notes. You want tiny differences. And tuning each snare differently will also help with the effect.

    Go forth and make a snare corps!

    Randy B.

  7. #7

    Smile Re: Phasing on drum in Aria

    Thanks rbowser for taking time to help me and sharing your knowledge!

    I have tried to do as you told me in my DAW (Cubase SX3),
    and I even come up with a preset in Logical-editor that moved
    the notes position randomly! Just som ticks! :-) Maybe I need
    to move them more because I dont get the right snare corps feeling :-)
    I will make a new try with more ticks and more tracks.


    Regards
    TompaD

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