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Topic: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

  1. #1

    Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    Hi everybody,

    I have started yesterday a new project which is the menuetto from the symphony #40 by the master Mozart.

    Let me know if it sounds realistic or not.


    There is no spoon.

  2. #2

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    No, it doesn't sound like Mozart and certainly not as a Menuette.
    It is too forceful, like some marching band. Lower the velocities of the accompaniment celli and basses, make the violins sing at the higher registers and try to make it sound like a chamber orchestra.

    And listen please to a professional recording (NOT the Berliner Symphoniker with Karajan!!!!!) to find out what I meant by this. Mozart didn't write for large orchestras (there weren't).

    My thoughts are may be a bit hard on this, but you asked for it.


  3. #3

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    I did a search on Internet. Here are some examples


    and here is a a funeral march made of it:


    a better one



  4. #4

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart


    Thanks for your advices.

    I have a version interpreted by the London symphony orchestra conducted by Claudio Abbado.

    I see what you mean by "too forceful".
    I will lower down the strong steps and the basses...

    I'm not a Mozart's specialist. I've done a lot of Strauss before, so I used the same techniques for Mozart. But I think the phrasing and length of the notes is okay.
    There is no spoon.

  5. #5

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart


    I have made several modifications in the menuet.
    Let me know if it sounds more Mozart than a military march.


    There is no spoon.

  6. #6

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    The first half of the phrase is not fluent enough, the second half is a lot better (2nd half does not refer to the 2nd repetition, of course). It might be solved by having a higher tempo (but I like my Mozart light and fast, and not everyone does), and not having a slow attack on the strings, but rather a fast attack and fast decay on the beats, like a accented notes, more punctuated. But ... I'm not completely sure of it. It's a rather difficult piece because of the restrictions the melody places on the rhythm. I imagine a gracious dance with small, fast movements of hands, twists, etc., on beats 1 and 3.

  7. #7

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    And put EQ on the strings: a few dB down around 1380Hz and 2950Hz can reduce the metallic sound of certain notes.

  8. #8

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    Hi Theo,

    Thanks for your reply.

    As I understood how to execute Strauss, I try to do some Mozart.
    I'm currently searching for the way of executing correctly Mozart's pieces.

    So, I'm searching the midi techniques for this composer on this menuet.

    As you mentioned, it's not easy to find the correct techniques for this composer.

    As said, I already made some modifications in the ambiance, velocities, strong steps marking etc. The first version was indeed a little bit too military.

    There is no spoon.

  9. #9

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    Much better. You are fast!! I have the complete score next to this reply window, so I can comment on the whole thing. As I see, the 1st and 2nd violins are doubled by the flutes and oboes. I don't know if you used the score with clarinets, if so then those clarinets also double the violins.

    Doubling means here, giving those strings a "power jump" to make them sing a bit more than usual. Don't overdo those upper voices and lower them a bit. They are just there to "enhance" not to "rule over". The fagotti (bassoons) play more or less them same voice as the violoncelli and contrabasses. So they are doubling the lower strings.The only voice that stands out are the violas. They play a harmonical role, to fill in the chords. Give them a bit more "juice" to be heard.

    Also, and just experiment with it, use some legato in the violins (those 4 8th notes at the beats 2&3/bar 3 etc. - integral part of the melodic structure), to stand out against those "rhythmic" quarter notes. The non-legato doubling of the woodwinds will give that dub-dub-dub-dub sound as if they weren't legato.

    See this. It is a score with clarinets and oboes at the top. Different version of the same work. Starting with Flauto is the original score.

    Have fun, it is a lively piece,


  10. #10

    Re: Menuetto from the symphony #40 by Mozart

    Hi Raymond,

    Thanks for your analyze. I have the paper scored by Eulenburg with the Flute as the first line that almost doubles the first violins. Eulenburg does original orchestration.

    I based the tempo and execution on the version interpeted by the London symphony orchestra conducted by Claudio Abbado (Already mentioned).

    My tempo is almost exactly the same. I also try to execute my version in a similar way to the original version I have.

    I have added some EQ on the strings as mentionned by Theo, raised a little the violas to complete the harmony and changed the attack of sustained/legato notes.

    I think I start to get the philosophy of executing this menuet. Executing Mozart is very different from executing J. Strauss.

    There is no spoon.

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