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Topic: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

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  1. #1

    Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    Now, everybody knows there still aren\'t any useable (Hollywood-size) anvil samples out there (or here). There have been other topics about this, but it\'s time for a small reminder I think ;-)

    Donnie, I know there are anvil samples on your Ultimate Orchestral Percussion library, but they just sound too tiny (actually, like little tin cans!), sorry, though I totally believe you when you say that it\'s the normal, acoustic sound of an anvil in a hall and that Hollywood anvils are sound processed for that well-known Titanic-Matrix anvil sound!

    But hey, why can\'t anybody just give us processed anvil samples then? That\'s what the end user wants, isn\'t it?

    I mean, there must be somebody out there reading these forums PLUS knowing how the desired anvil sound is created?

    Ofcourse, this post doesn\'t have to be applied to anvils only - just replace the word \'anvil\' and \'anvils\' by any large sounding percussion sound!

    Maarten


    ------------------
    ( www.maartenspruijt.com )
    ICQ: 37834976

  2. #2

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    Agreed Maarten. However Donnie is wrong. Donnie, have you actually tried hitting the anvil with a hammer in a large orchestral hall? Sure, you get that sound if you mic it 2 feet away, but to really capture the high pitched anvil \"cling\" you need to take your mics much farther away. This is just another example of how important mic placement and hall ambience is.
    Most anvils in \"hollywood\" scores are probably post-processed with reverb and eq (and so are most instruments as well), but there are limits to how much one can \"repair\" a bad sound. I could never imagine being able to get that \"anvil hit\" from UOP to sound like a \"hollywood anvil\". I\'d love for you to prove me wrong though. It sounds flat and, yes, a bit like a tincan. This is sad though since it is a very sought after percussion effect.

    Maarten, do not forget that they sometimes have tubular bells struck at ff, with a quick dampening of the hand, on top of the anvil hit. This broadens the sound, but it\'s still no good if you haven\'t got good samples to work with.

    Thomas

  3. #3

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    I have done what I believe is an OK metallic hit sound made up from 3 different metallic \"clonks\" I got from a friend. EQ´ed and reverb´ed, certainly a lot closer to the \"Matrix sound\" than the present anvil sounds would do. I think that pretty much any metallic sounds could create this effect - the sounds I work with are not especially wellsounding when you hear them dry

  4. #4

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    Yupp, I think you are right Simon, wanna share? or let us listen to them in a context?

    Thomas

  5. #5

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    I recorded over a 100 anvil samples in the past years. I worked as a sound designer for the Dutch Opera House and they did Wagners Das Rheingold. There are some pieces in the opera where over 22 anvils are prescribed in the score. Further Wagner prescribed anvils in 3 octaves: High, Mid and Low.

    So I went out to record anvils everywhere I could find them. I also found that the anvil sound is mainly dependent on the recorded amount of \'space\'. I mean a dry anvil sounds like crap. This made me go out with the anvil and bring it to all kind of reverberant places in the Dutch Opera House and record the anvils (we bought 3 of them) in different spaces. All these recordings resulted in a huge amount of anvil-samples and \'anvil-related\' samples. I recorded the fork of a fork-truck, I recorded the screw of a huge ship, I recorded large metal object like train rails etc. I haven\'t brought these anvil samples in a commercial library, yet.

    For those of you really interested please email me privately at mpost@xs4all.nl

    Michiel Post
    Post Audio Media

  6. #6

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    Yupp, I think you are right Simon, wanna share? or let us listen to them in a context?

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Sure I\'ll put up a little mp3 of it tonight. I can\'t show it in context yet because I am using a certain as of yet unreleased library in the piece...



  7. #7

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    Don\'t forget to include the midi file and a quicktime of you doing the recording

  8. #8

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thomas_J:
    Agreed Maarten. However Donnie is wrong. Donnie, have you actually tried hitting the anvil with a hammer in a large orchestral hall? Sure, you get that sound if you mic it 2 feet away, but to really capture the high pitched anvil \"cling\" you need to take your mics much farther away. This is just another example of how important mic placement and hall ambience is.
    Most anvils in \"hollywood\" scores are probably post-processed with reverb and eq (and so are most instruments as well), but there are limits to how much one can \"repair\" a bad sound. I could never imagine being able to get that \"anvil hit\" from UOP to sound like a \"hollywood anvil\". I\'d love for you to prove me wrong though. It sounds flat and, yes, a bit like a tincan. This is sad though since it is a very sought after percussion effect.

    Maarten, do not forget that they sometimes have tubular bells struck at ff, with a quick dampening of the hand, on top of the anvil hit. This broadens the sound, but it\'s still no good if you haven\'t got good samples to work with.

    Thomas
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


    Thomas, tell you what...when you start working on your doctorate in percussion then you can tell me what an anvil is susposed to sound like. The one on UOP is ONE anvil. As stated above there is a limitless number of sounds you can get from anvils. The one on UOP hardly sounds like a \"tin can\". Besides I thought you didn\'t own it.....

    Thats the problem with some composers. They \"think\" they know what something is susposed to sound like from what they hear in a movie theatre. Thats not always the case. In fact is hardly ever the case in the symphony hall.

    Anyway, I can assure you that whats coming has \"a few\" more choices!

    Donnie


  9. #9

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    Heres a small ex. of what I\'m talking about....
    http://www.dssoundware.com/sounds/ANVILS.mp3

    Donnie

  10. #10

    Re: Now what about those full-blast ANVILS ?!?

    Donnie, I am a percussionist myself (no doctorate, but played a lot of different percussion in an orchestra for almost 7 years). I am absolutely sure you know best what an anvil is and sounds like in a normal situation. Ofcourse I know as well as you that most percussion instruments can sound VERY different in filmmusic than in concert music. The problem is that about all people that walk these forums have an interested in film music, not or less in concert music.

    So, when we hear a great percussion hit sound on a soundtrack, then on another, and another, and it is told that it\'s an anvil, it is THAT sound we want. Even if it is NOT a normal concert anvil!

    I think it is common knowlegde that a lot of composers using technology today write from a \"sound\" and \"production\" point of view, NOT from a more \"classical\", instrument-orientated point of view. If that\'s a good or a bad thing, I leave up to other people to talk about. What I\'m saying is that they don\'t care if it isn\'t a real anvil they have as a sample, as long as it sounds like they\'re used to hear it on the commercial soundtracks. It is that simple, and twisted.

    Do you see what I\'m trying to make clear?

    Now this thread could go the same way as Thomas_J\'s thread about his brass samples, so let\'s not go that way!

    INSTEAD, LET\'S FOCUS ON HOW WE C-A-N ACHIEVE THE FILM MUSIC-SOUND PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR MORE IN GENERAL - both in percussion as in other instruments perhaps.

    Donnie, if you got the soundtracks, I would very much like you to listen to the following spots, where to my knowledge a (Hollywood!) anvil is being used, in combination ofcourse with other hit percussion:

    - The Matrix (original score): track 1, 2:48
    - The Matrix (original score): track 5, 1:24
    I think in both these cases there is a larger anvil being struck every other beat, and a smaller anvil playing 16ths.

    - Back to Titanic: track 6, 3:29 and on
    - Back to Titanic, track 6, 5:09

    Maarten

    ------------------
    ( www.maartenspruijt.com )
    ICQ: 37834976

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