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Topic: Recording/workflow question

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  1. #1

    Recording/workflow question

    Hello everyone,

    I have a general question about recording with a DAW that I can't seem to resolve.

    Let's say I've got a piece and I'm recording a violin track. That violin track may play through the entire piece, but I want to break up the "takes". How do I pick up where I left off and not have the volume jumping all over the place because I didn't have the mod wheel at the same position I left off? Or do you even try to record CC1 data "live"?

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Steve Winkler

  2. #2
    Senior Member Frank D's Avatar
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    Re: Recording/workflow question

    Hi Steve,

    I never worry about any of the CC or wheel inputs during the composing/arranging phase ... at least in terms of the section I'm currently working on. If the piece is at a brisk tempo, it's very difficult to do in real time with the playing of notes. IOW, once I have some lines in an 8-12 measure section, I then may go in and play around with the CC data, but just within that section.

    Here's a tip that I found helps to keep my sanity with the problem you described: I have a 'default' CC1 setting of 80 that I have input at the beginning of every Garritan MIDI track in my template files. As I flesh out the form of my arrangement, I copy this data to the beginning of each new section. This way, no matter what I left the last CC1 data at when I detailed a section of the arrangement, I will still hear something reasonable if I decide to work 10 measures down the road tomorrow. Eventually, all these temp settings get overwritten with CC1 data that flows from phrase to phrase.

    Hope this helps!

    Regards,

    Frank

  3. #3

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    Quote Originally Posted by swinkler View Post
    Hello everyone,

    I have a general question about recording with a DAW that I can't seem to resolve.

    Let's say I've got a piece and I'm recording a violin track. That violin track may play through the entire piece, but I want to break up the "takes". How do I pick up where I left off and not have the volume jumping all over the place because I didn't have the mod wheel at the same position I left off? Or do you even try to record CC1 data "live"?

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

    Steve Winkler
    Hi, Steve - It's an interesting question to me, because somehow this has never been an issue for me. It must have to do with what we do or don't do in our sequencer.

    I record volume data on a second pass so I can concentrate just on that part of the track. But even when I sometimes record both notes and volume at the same time, None of the resulting data achieved either way is ever left As Is.

    To me, as I've said many times before, the heart of MIDI work is in the Piano Roll View of a sequencer. I mean that all data is liable to be edited at least somewhat after I've done a recording.

    That makes it a non-issue whether or not cc1 data lines up or not - I'm always smoothing out the data quickly and easily in the PRV. If a new take began at a wildly different level--no sweat, one swoop of my cursor and I fix the discrepancy.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    Thank you guys for your responses. Your very helpful. Also you have a good point Randy. I guess the piece I'm working on right now is pretty slow and in particular I'm thinking of the string part that has small breaks but I was having trouble picking it back up where I left off and getting the mod wheel in the wrong spot. Your suggestion would of course work and as I finally take the plunge into the DAW world I'll probably tweak more and more and more and more

    I've been a notation guy (and still am), but I'm finding more of a need to learn to use a DAW and create better renderings for people. It's becoming more of an expectation with clients.

    Steve

  5. #5

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    Steve, if you're working in Sonar, there's a Project setting which can make things difficult for GPO users. By default, MIDI controllers are re-set to Zero when you stop playback as you work. That has to be set so those controllers are Not re-set - Otherwise, with GPO, you would constantly be having no volume when you start playback again after stopping. See?

    I mention this because your second post makes me think perhaps you're dealing with something like that. To have your volume control always going back to nothing -well, you can't work like that. So, if you're using Sonar, or any other program that has this kind of "re-set to zero" function--make sure it's turned off. It'll make life much easier.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    Don't know if this will help.

    I assume that you are recording a midi file and then playing this back and that you are having a series of short sections.

    In Cubase you can glue the sections together to form one overall section, the CC1 would then continue from one to the next without a sudden change. (Only changes are recorded remember)
    Derek
    Things may come and things may go but the art school dance goes on forever
    NOW WITH Cubase 5, JABB,GPO, Fender Strat, Ibanez RG, Yamaha Fretless Bass, Framus Archtop, The Trumpet and Mr T Sax, together with GREEN SEALING WAX


  7. #7

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Steve, if you're working in Sonar, there's a Project setting which can make things difficult for GPO users. By default, MIDI controllers are re-set to Zero when you stop playback as you work. That has to be set so those controllers are Not re-set - Otherwise, with GPO, you would constantly be having no volume when you start playback again after stopping. See?

    I mention this because your second post makes me think perhaps you're dealing with something like that. To have your volume control always going back to nothing -well, you can't work like that. So, if you're using Sonar, or any other program that has this kind of "re-set to zero" function--make sure it's turned off. It'll make life much easier.

    Randy
    Hey Randy,
    I only recently purchased GPO4 and haven't spent much time with it. I'm still trying to understand why it doesn't use velocity instead of the mod wheel but I guess there must be a reason.
    Anyway, I know I've seen that option (reset to zero) ...I would think it would be in global but can't seem to find it...can you tell me the path por favor?
    Thanks Randy,
    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    From the help file :
    Option How it works
    Zero Controllers When Play Stops If this option is enabled, SONAR zeroes (resets) the pitch wheel, the pedal Controller, and the modulation wheel Controller on all 16 MIDI channels whenever playback is stopped. It also sends a “Zero All Continuous Controllers” MIDI message, which turns off other continuous Controllers on newer synthesizers. If you experience frequent stuck notes when playback stops, try checking this option.

    Patch/Controller Searchback Before Play Starts If this option is enabled, SONAR searches for and sends the most recent patch change, wheel, and pedal events on each output and MIDI channel before starting playback. This ensures that all these settings are correct, even if you start playback at an arbitrary point in your project.

    To set these options, choose Options > Project and click the MIDI Out tab

    "buckshead" also had a good method - in Sonar select the entire track and do EDIT>BOUNCE TO CLIPS. That will create a single contiguous track which you can cut apart later if you want to

    Fred

  9. #9

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    To set these options, choose Options > Project and click the MIDI Out tab


    Hmmmm....so one has to reset this for every project? Wonder why they wouldn't make it a global option (not a big deal...just curious)
    Thanks Fred,
    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Recording/workflow question

    NIce discussion going on here. Lemme add more:

    "... I'm still trying to understand why it doesn't use velocity instead of the mod wheel but I guess there must be a reason...."

    Actually, Randy, the most analogous standard MIDI controller to Garritan-style MIDI is CC11- expression. The velocity in most of the GPO instruments controls the shape of the attack envelope - which naturally also effects the timbre. In standard MIDI, velocity would control volume, and often a filter which makes a sound duller at lower values - but that's not quite the same thing.

    I feel what the Garritan developers did was squeeze more flexibility and musicality out of the existing MIDI spec. It would be best if one of them could see this thread and explain in their own words something about the decision to use CC1 - It Is something which throws new comers for a bit of a loop. CC1 instead of CC11 or CC7 --it's unusual. Sure works though.

    Next point:

    "...Hmmmm....so one has to reset this for every project? Wonder why they wouldn't make it a global option..."

    You wouldn't want it a global option, because you could have different needs with a project that involves different soft synths.

    BUT you Don't have to re-set this for every project. This is where Sonar Templates come in - ANd there are two ways to do them.

    Simply open a new project, "Normal"---Do whatever settings you want, maybe instances of Aria with an orchestra already laid out. Set up your mixer's buses - Anything which you would like to always have ready--INCLuding this particular setting. Go to the Project tab, as described on this thread, and UN-check the "Zero controllers" option, but leave the "Patch/Controllers" option checked.

    Two choices at this point: Save As a Cakewalk Template, or just an appropriately labeled "normal" project. Now, whenever you start a new project, you just call up this pre-configured file, and immediately Save As the title of your new piece. There ya go.

    One more response - Bounce to Clips is indeed how to get all the small clips in a MIDI track to become one solid track. The same as the "gluing" of clips in Cubase. - But that doesn't change anything about the MIDI data in the clips--SO, this is not a method which will do anything for Steve's originally posted question, how to avoid wild fluctuations in cc1 data.

    As posted earlier, the answer to that question is you don't worry about it--Record at will in however many clips you want. It's very simple to then fix the transitions between clips in the PRV.

    Randy

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