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Topic: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

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  1. #1

    Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    I have tried a very challenging undertaking: rendering Mahler's symphonic music with electronic means. This is my first recording after a complete upgrade of my recording system, which now uses Sonar 8.5.3, GPO 4, Windows 7/64bit.
    One of the problems is that I had to "borrow" a few notes from another synth, as Mahler required notes to be played which are at the very extreme (low tuba, low english horn), and the GPO instruments did not have those. Also I struggled with the string flagolet that is required - I calculated the values in one instance, and of course it is outside of the normal playable range.

    Well, have a listen and send me some critical feedback. My own verdict: I have to work on the tempo mapping, is sometimes not as "smooth" as I want it. This also has to do that the attack of some of the lush/sustain strings is a bit late, and I will have to manually correct this.

    I also did a first experiment with a 5.1 surround recording: is not realistic, to be an audience in the middle of an orchestra, but who cares about realism anyway? The point is to create an immersive captivating musical experience. This was just to try it out - I will experiment more with this.

    Here are the files (right-click and save):

    http://www.virtualphilharmonic.co.uk...0324_90vbr.wma
    90% quality, VBR, 16 bit, 8.6 MB

    http://www.virtualphilharmonic.co.uk...100326_5_1.wma
    5.1 surround (WMA version 10), 90% quality, VBR, 10.3 MB


    Reinhold

  2. #2

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Reinhold:

    A very convincing mock-up of this great work. You have a talent
    for working with sampled instruments and, obviously, know how
    "play" them.

    A very entertaining listen and I hope to hear more of your work in
    the near future.


    BRAVO,

    Jack
    Jack Cannon--MacBook Pro (2015, 13") GPO4/5, JABB3, Auth. STEINWAY, YAMAHA CFX, Gofriller CELLO, Stradivari VIOLIN, COMB2, WORLD, HARPS, PIPE ORGANS, FINALE 2014.5, Mac Pro 2.66 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, DP 9.5, MOTU Traveler, MOTU Micro Express, MacBook Pro (2012, 13") 2.2 Ghz CPU, 8 GB RAM.

  3. #3

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Hi Reinhold.
    Whac can I say?
    As a Mahler-enthusiast I'm delighted by your work.
    Bravo.
    Fabio
    Arrigo Beyle / Milanese / Lived, wrote, loved -- Stendhal
    Being Italian is a full-time job -- B. Severgnini

  4. #4

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    My only comment is on interpretation rather than your realization (which is VERY good). I don't have a score available so I'm basing this comment on recordings I've heard. In the solo oboe that comes in at about 0:57.9, at 1:05.6 and 1:07.0 there is (I assume) a grace note (on A?) followed by a note a fourth higher (D?). In every recording I've heard, that D is very staccato - nearly as short as the grace note. You have it sustained.

    Pat O'Keefe

  5. #5

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Great! It sounds like a bit more like a smaller orchestra than a really huge symphonic orchestra, but that is all right with me. The sound and the music are really well done, and the more intimate atmosphere makes the lines clearer. About tempi: that's always tricky. It's very personal, and especially conductors disagree completely, especially the better ones (listen to Walter, Haitink, or Bernstein). There are some odd things in the tempo, perhaps they can be solved by slowing down a bit first and then picking tempo up again. Perhaps.

    Great work!
    Theo

  6. #6
    Senior Member sd cisco's Avatar
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    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Hello Reinhold and Welcome to the Forum!!
    You have done a masterful job on a tricky piece. It is tricky for any number of reasons; some being the string articulations throughout and also the balancing of the clarinets in the dance bits. Nice work!
    Keep posting!

    Best regards,
    sd cisco

  7. #7

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Thanks everyone for the time spent on the listening and for the great feedback. This is very encouraging... I plan to tackle the whole Symphony #1 within the next year, as my contribution to the Mahler year (7.7.2010: 150th birthday, 18.May 2011 100th death day). There are quite some challenges ahead for this project...

    Two more low-hanging fruits are to re-record the Adagietto (I do have a MIDI realization from earlier times, need to adapt it to GPO4) and from the 4th symphony the 3rd movement. Ok, back to work!

    And thanks again for your comments!

  8. #8

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by pokeefe View Post
    My only comment is on interpretation rather than your realization (which is VERY good). I don't have a score available so I'm basing this comment on recordings I've heard. In the solo oboe that comes in at about 0:57.9, at 1:05.6 and 1:07.0 there is (I assume) a grace note (on A?) followed by a note a fourth higher (D?). In every recording I've heard, that D is very staccato - nearly as short as the grace note. You have it sustained.

    Pat O'Keefe
    Hi Pat,

    interesting observation. I checked in the score, it is bar 31, and yes, you are right: the higher D should be a staccato. I will immediately correct this, and in the next revision it should appear being "played" properly.

    Thanks for pointing this out!

    Reinhold

  9. #9

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by FLWrd View Post
    Great! It sounds like a bit more like a smaller orchestra than a really huge symphonic orchestra, but that is all right with me. The sound and the music are really well done, and the more intimate atmosphere makes the lines clearer. About tempi: that's always tricky. It's very personal, and especially conductors disagree completely, especially the better ones (listen to Walter, Haitink, or Bernstein). There are some odd things in the tempo, perhaps they can be solved by slowing down a bit first and then picking tempo up again. Perhaps.

    Great work!
    Hi Theo,

    interesting comment regarding the orchestra size; I may have to add more instrumental layers and double at least the string sections.

    Regarding tempo: yes, this is absolutely a personal thing. And I know that I disagree with some existing recordings which play it in my opinion too slow (the score mentions a couple of times "nicht schleppen" - do not drag). But at the moment I myself disagree with the recording I made - so the first order of action is actually to get the recording so that it represents what I really have in mind. This is one of the most tricky parts: to get the temp right by just entering numbers or drawing the tempo curve... this rarely works, as it is more try-and-error. Better would be if the tempo could be interpreted live, through hand waving for example, as done by "real" conductors... I have played with the thought of adding a very first step in creating a music sequence: to first record live a "tempo track", with a single note at each beat. Sonar (since the old Cakewalk) has the provision to create a tempo map from such a "improvisation track". Not sure if I could pull that off for a whole symphony movement... maybe I give it a try with one of the other parts of that symphony.

    Reinhold

  10. #10

    Re: Gustav Mahler: Symphony No.1, 3rd Movement

    Quote Originally Posted by reinholdbehringer View Post
    ... I plan to tackle the whole Symphony #1 within the next year ...
    Can I put in a request for "Blumine" (either included as the 2nd movement or as a separate work)? I know that it has fallen out of favor as part of the symphony since it didn't undergo the extensive reworking Mahler did to the rest of the symphony, but it's still a beautiful little piece and a good example of early orchestra music. It deserves exposure.

    Pat

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