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Topic: Can't we all just get along?

  1. #1

    Can\'t we all just get along?

    One thing I always liked about this group was that developers interacted
    with the users of their sample CDs.
    Take Donnie and Garritan. In past threads they asked US what we wanted in
    a library and they bent over backwards to deliver. Other forums don\'t have
    that. Lately, this group has been returning their courtesy with insults.
    To name a few:

    \"... just a complaint to all of you who make libraries without the proper
    competence, solely for profit. Take www.vrsound.com\'s string library
    ...sounds like an amateur teens string orchestra, at best. Its proper
    library name should be \"Amateur Youth String Orchestra\". \"Guaranteed to make
    you cringe at the very thought\". It is obvious to me that either they are
    going for the quick bucks, or they have no idea what they are doing. \"

    \" QLBrass, I must draw the conclusion that there was not a lot of effort or
    thought put into it...Nick Phoenix, given the low quality of his product and
    the content of his rhetoric, seems a good candidate for suspicion.\" MChilds

    \"some seriously good MP3s by some decent composers are necessary\" , \", they
    are perhaps simply not talented or well trained enough... \" TJ

    Nick Phoenix has done remarkable work with his library and I have yet to
    find a better brass library. It was unnecessary and slanderous to blast him in
    this way. And what did Franz do to deserve such horrific criticism? MP3s
    are by their nature decoded, lossy, low res, dependent on the sound cards
    and other factors. An entire string library is to be trashed on the basis
    of a few mp3s?

    Then there\'s GigaStrings - an immense library of incredible instruments
    (Stradivaris,etc) recorded at Lincoln Center. It also gets unduly
    criticized - before it\'s released - based on compositional grounds of a few
    mp3s that were pulled 4 hours after being posted . There is something called legato mode and auto-alternator, making use of up and down bowing. Isn\'t
    anyone at all curious about this? I would rather have many imperfect demos
    showing the range and versatility of the product instead of a few
    overly-produced perfect little demos. How about some demos of legato mode,
    auto-alternator, that Warmth control, vibrato control and those other
    controls mentioned on the site. I really don\'t care if the mp3s are not
    compositionally perfect. The GigaStrings beta testers seem to be the only
    ones in the know . These beta testers have been posting to this group for
    some time - why would they want to steer us wrong? What\'s the excitement
    about? I would really want to know more and hear more from the beta
    testers about what makes this library stand out. Forget about being side-tracked with mp3s, we deserve to know more.

    Miroslav, Seidlezek, Hunter and the other developers don\'t come on the
    group for our suggestions nor post their mp3s for our group. They keep a
    low profile and as such they don\'t make themselves targets. I would hate
    for Donnie, Nick, Garritan and the other developers to think they should not
    bother anymore. But I wouldn\'t blame them if we hear less from them. The
    rules of this forum state that \"we are here to help each other get the best
    use out of Nemesys GigaSampler/Studio.\" Helping each other doesn\'t include
    reckless and irresponsible criticism. I would hate for the developers to disappear from this
    group on account of a few thoughtless individuals.

  2. #2

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    very well said and thanks for the support!


  3. #3

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    I must admit that all the negative posts about different libraries gives me a bad vibe every morning when I turn on my computer. Developers should not be treated \"hard\" - if someone think we will make better libraries this way... forget it. Most of the developers I know are sensitive musicians and should at least be treated with respect. We love suggestions and it can be useful for us when someone point out some weaknesses of our work - but in a friendly constructive way.


  4. #4

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    Its funny. I just realized why this forum seems like a \"hype machine\" to so many people. because its the only place where developers do communicate with end users.

    I for one love the fact that developers pop up here and chime in on discusions. I love even more that they listen to our input.

    I dont like the harsh criticism of the sound libraries lately. I don\'t feel its waranted at all. I do however believe that constructive criticism is welcomed.

    One thing all the sound developers here should realise is that there will always be people who focus on the \"bad things\" (can we say subjective...I thought we could...) and not realise the full potential of the libraries they question, or realise that out of the options we have they represent the best or a very usable option.

    I hope they listen to both what we like and what we would like to see improved.

    My DD WW should be showing up this week and next up is FINALLY your Ult Orch Perc Donnie, possibly this week, I\'ll share my initial thoughts and then hopefully after I put them to some real use I\'ll be able to come back and share again.

    Also I agree I don\'t believe Franz deserved that comment. His libraries are focused on being recorded with his \"3-D Sound\" focus. Not to mention, if I remember correctly, the VR Sound libraries aren\'t too expensive. As well, there are times where one might want sounds that aren\'t \"perfectly\" recorded.

    I want to stress to developers to try not to get too irritated by the harsher comments about your libraries that show up here. Try to remember that there are other users taht are probably getting some good use out of them, as well we may even defend them. Or even ask for other users comments in a thread to see if we all agree, which may help in further development OR help all of us discuss what works in achieving different sounds.

    I miss the days when Sam was posting his filtering trick for a certain piano library and our infamous reverb discusions.....I can twait for that one to pop up again.

    Really...I am an Idiot

  5. #5

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    I agree wholeheartedly. I\'m new to this group but have detected some ugly stuff going on.

    I indeed think it\'s marvelous that these guys contribute and they certainly won\'t if they have to put up with some of the personal insults that have been bandied around. Luckily, they seem to differentiate.

    I think it\'s difficult though, for many people to express themselves properly in this medium (smiley faces aren\'t enough, unfortunately). Also bear in mind that these people are pretty passionate (my god, they\'re musicians after all), what can you expect? I think a lot of it is just hot blooded, painful frankness. (I don\'t honestly think the guy who mentioned the \'youth orchestra\' was really digging too hard - I listened to it and I can\'t imagine what they were thinking. It really does sound like a bunch of kids in a school orchestra, I can\'t believe these are samples; it sounds so real). So you see? Sometimes it can\'t be helped. I\'m sure the people who made it are wonderful people and I wish them a long and happy life, but the MP3 simply IS my old school orchestra.

    I\'m glad to see that the \'Samplers\' out there are cutting all of us some slack. I just listened to some cracking brass samples here (inside a wonderful piece of music) and it\'s obvious that some of the old guard of the sampling world might do better to get on board here and face the music if they want to keep their skills sharpened.

  6. #6

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    Here are my impressions of the gigastring library as one of the beta testers.
    It is hard to know where to start, first let me say that you cannot compare this library
    to any other. There is nothing that comes close in comprehensiveness and sound quality.
    People have said maybe there are too many articulations, so much choice could be confusing. The organization of gigastrings is very transparent and is actually an educational experience in different bowing techniques and playing styles. It actually makes sequencing easier because you are not forced to try and tweak one sample into sounding like another one. If you need spicatto you got it! I used to dread doing string mock-ups because I knew it would take a lot of work to make it sound half way decent.
    Gigastrings makes it much, much easier.
    I realize this library is not inexpensive and believe me I can sympathize with people who have shelled out good money for a sample cd that was crap, but this is not the case here, you will be getting your moneys worth I guarantee it.

  7. #7

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    Bottom line, this is a public forum and good or bad comments should be welcome. Agreed, it would be nice if we all behaved like gentlemen, but I can see where a foul taste is developed after buying some expensive sample cds only to find a few useable samples. See my topic on \"money back guarentees\"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Chandler, Arizona

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    Which sample libraries are the cutting edge libraries available now or within the next few months? All of these libraries are put out by the sample developers that post on this forum!! Notice that past libraries such as Miroslav, AO, Kirk Hunter, etc., have lost touch with the users and are now falling behind. We should all thank Gary Garritan, Dan Dean, Donnie, Scarbee, Nick Phoenix and the others that spend the extra time to find out what we, the musicians, really want!

    Most people don\'t realize the money and time these guys spend putting out and sharing their libraries with us. They could keep them for their personal use so their work sounds better than everyone elses. People are always doing math such as 1,000 copies sound at $1,000 makes a million dollars. How many developers actually sell this many copies? Remember, these guys may have paid a large sum of money up front to record the musicians (plus many other expenses) and then a year programming the library without making a dime. This is a risky business especially with the piracy going on!

    Let\'s support and thank our sample developers on our forum! I\'m sure that they\'ll keep on trying to amaze us with their next release!

  9. #9

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    I\'d like to add my words of encouragement to the library developers. After researching a lot of different samplers and getting some encouraging e-mails from King Idiot, I will soon be joining the Gigastudio family (my baby\'s delivery date is set for early next week).

    One of the things that I found was a BIG plus for going with Gigastudio was the fact that this place even exists. As a Roland VS User, I stumbled across the VS-Planet Bulletin Board about two years ago and was amazed by the wealth of information, support, and sheer looniness that a BBS can offer. And after lurking around here for a few days, I learned TONS about the Gigastudio and was impressed that the library developers were frequent posters. A forum such as this is a fantastic resource, and I hate to see it stained with negativity. That\'s not to say that constructive criticism should be off limits, but there\'s a way to make your point while still keeping in mind the fact that these libraries are the product of a person\'s hard work.

  10. #10

    Re: Can\'t we all just get along?

    Oh please...

    Sample developers are artists working to profit from their art just like the rest of us, and should have thicker skins. Otherwise they should just do it for the fun of it and not sell the libraries.

    Critics will be critics, whether professional, amateur, reasonable, or ill-informed. It really shouldn\'t matter - if the library is good, word will get around. You\'ll never be able to please everybody, and everybody should feel free to express their opinions.

    I for one never heard the recent demos that were posted for GOS, but if they didn\'t represent the library well for whatever reason (including quality of composition) it\'s better that Gary gets the instant feedback so he knows to improve the quality of his demos.

    If I were Gary I\'d offer a free library to Thomas J in exchange for a full suite of mp3 demo\'s.

    Just thinking aloud...

    - Chris

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