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Topic: Legato

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  1. #1

    Post Legato

    Hey guys,

    I'm back working on GPO4 again and I'm trying to get the basics down before launching into a full song.

    I'm having trouble sorting out which way is the best for getting natural sounding legato and portamento on strings.

    I'm working in Sonar and have created the envelopes for cc68 legato, cc01 for mod wheel, cc20 porta.

    First looking at legato. I turned off auto-legato and tried using the sustain pedal off and on but not much luck in sound change. Then I read here to use the cc68 instead but again unless I lengthen the notes, no legato. So which is the best way.

    Next looking at creating portamento. I've tried to use the envelope but the sound is not quite realistic enough. I follow what I read here about starting the phrase with cc20 at zero and then going full 127 until the phrase ends then bringing it back to zero. Do any of you have a good starting point for using this feature?

    Thanks again for all the input.
    Earl Green

  2. #2

    Re: Legato

    Quote Originally Posted by earlwgreen View Post
    Hey guys,

    I'm back working on GPO4 again and I'm trying to get the basics down before launching into a full song.

    I'm having trouble sorting out which way is the best for getting natural sounding legato and portamento on strings.

    I'm working in Sonar and have created the envelopes for cc68 legato, cc01 for mod wheel, cc20 porta.

    First looking at legato. I turned off auto-legato and tried using the sustain pedal off and on but not much luck in sound change. Then I read here to use the cc68 instead but again unless I lengthen the notes, no legato. So which is the best way.

    Next looking at creating portamento. I've tried to use the envelope but the sound is not quite realistic enough. I follow what I read here about starting the phrase with cc20 at zero and then going full 127 until the phrase ends then bringing it back to zero. Do any of you have a good starting point for using this feature?

    Thanks again for all the input.
    CC68 is used in Finale or maybe other notation programs as well.
    CC64 is used in SONAR and you may or may not overlap the notes. From an old GPO manual, using the CC64 will eliminate the velocity attack of the subsequent notes until CC64-value zero. With overlapping you can get more "smoothly"' sounding legatos. Experiment with it until you are satisfied.


    Somebody else must answer that portamento thing......
    Raymond

  3. #3

    Re: Legato

    Hi, Earl

    The Notation set of samples use CC68 for Legato so they function without conflict in Finale. Those samples can be used in Sonar, but generally people use the Standard set for sequencers.

    The "classic Garritan Legato" technique requires the notes to be slightly overlapped, not butted up against each other.

    Be careful with Portamento. It can sound more than just "soupy," it can quickly sound artificial when over-used.

    Have fun with your experiments!

    Randy B.

  4. #4

    Re: Legato

    Thanks guys for the tip on using CC64 instead of CC68. I do use the standard samples, not the notation. Actually that answers whey there are 2!

    I was hoping someone had created a nice string example in midi to show how both of these could work together.

    I'll keep working on it and post a few solo lines for critiquing.
    Earl Green

  5. #5

    Re: Legato

    Hi, Earl - Good to hear from you again.

    You wanted examples of using GPO strings - have you listened to user-made demos at the Garritan site?

    http://www.personalorchestra.com/

    Click Music Demos and then Main Demo Page.

    But maybe you're saying you wanted someone to share MIDI files of demos?

    Do you have the GPO PDF manual? There's a lot of information about this topic in it.

    Randy B.

  6. #6

    Re: Legato

    Well, I've been trying different combinations and I don't really hear much of a difference. Maybe I just don't know what it should sound like! LOL

    I tried using cc64 with non-extended notes and I tried cc64 with extended notes. Then I tried exteded notes without cc64, still not much of a difference if any.

    Thanks.
    Earl Green

  7. #7

    Re: Legato

    H'lo again, Earl

    "...Maybe I just don't know what it should sound like!..."


    Have you listened to any of the demos? They would be a helpful aural reference.

    The Garritan Legato has its most pronounced effect on solo Woodwinds and Brass. I've seen a number of people being a bit of a quandary about the effect it has on strings. It's possible that you have an inaccurate expectation of what the results will be like--but that brings up listening to demos again.

    If you can post a clip of one of your experiments and a screen shot of what your MIDI file looks like in the PRV, with all controller lanes visible, it would be easier to give you more tips.

    Randy B.

  8. #8

    Re: Legato

    Quote Originally Posted by earlwgreen View Post
    Well, I've been trying different combinations and I don't really hear much of a difference. Maybe I just don't know what it should sound like! LOL
    It is more clear when you have higher velocities (strings).

    Raymond

  9. #9

    Re: Legato

    Earl, as a footnote to the last post:

    --Low velocities in GPO produce softer, slower attack envelopes. That means the sound more gently swells up. Higher velocities do the opposite, providing sharper, faster starts to notes.

    --If you have very low velocities on your strings, there will be a swelling up sound with each new note, and that would interfere with what you're wanting to do with Legato.

    --If you have the highest velocities on your strings, you'll have such a sharp, chiffing sound, that this also could interfere with what you're after.

    --So I would experiment with mid-range velocity values, starting with 64, and seeing if those values yield you better results.

    Randy B.

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