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Topic: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

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  1. #1

    Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    Hi,

    I started using Stylus RMX a few weeks ago and I am still
    overwhelmed by it. However, I started with a piece in 6/8,
    i.e. beats 1, 3 and 5 are accented beats and it has a jazzy French
    feeling and I wanted to have a drums accompaniment with brushes.
    My main concern apart from finding proper rex files which I finally
    did at DrumsOnDemand was to match Stylus with my 6/8 bars.
    I gave up doing so. Even rex files whose original time signature is
    noted by Stylus as 6/8 did not fit in the bars, i.e. there never
    are 6 8th notes fitting in one bar in my sequencer (Cubase 5).
    I now use 2/4 in Cubase and there they fit magically.
    Stylus also always displays the pattern in the time designer in
    frames related to 4.
    I now try to think of my song as a 2/4 song with a triplet feeling,
    i.e. in the printed score I hide all triplet signs and write this
    "quarter note equals three 8th notes" pictogram
    (don't know if it has a name) above the first bar.

    Is the whole non-4/4 thing somehow mixed up in the
    "rex/rmx" world? I find this whole thing rather counter-intuitive.

    I hope I have described my problem in an understandable way.

    Don't get me wrong. I love Stylus RMX!!!

    regards,
    Andreas

  2. #2

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    Unfortunately, many 6/8 REX files in commercial libraries are prepared incorrectly. RMX handles 6/8 fine when it's been REX'ed properly.

    What's even better is using the Time Designer features....make sure you check it out! :-)

    Here's the Video Demo:

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/pub...onstration.php

    And the Tutorial Video:

    http://support.spectrasonics.net/pub...e_Designer.php

  3. #3

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    ...replying to my own posting

    Quote Originally Posted by slippermen0 View Post
    ...

    I started using Stylus RMX a few weeks ago and I am still
    overwhelmed by it. However, I started with a piece in 6/8,
    i.e. beats 1, 3 and 5 are accented beats...
    Of course I meant beats 1 and 4 are accented...uuuh ...not
    1, 3 and 5 (8th note positions) which would be 3/4.

    @spectrum:

    Thanks for the reply.

    Yes, time designer is a great tool. Although, in this case, I have proper loops from an acoustically point of view. I only wished I could have them delivered in a manner which fits in a 6/8 signature on the DAW side.

    Could this "time stretching" be a new feature for Stylus RMX?

    To time-stretch i.e. a 4/4 pattern into 6/8 or maybe 12/8.

    For example, convert a REX file with 12 8th triplets per 4/4 bar , i.e.

    | 1 + + 2 + + 3 + + 4 + + |

    which acoustically presents what fits in two 6/8 bars

    | 1 + + 4 + + | 1 + + 4 + + |

    into exactly that output-wise. This requires no modification of the slices at all, only a linear scaling of where (or better: when) they occur time-wise.
    Or, equivalently to this, when dragging a midi pattern from Stylus RMX into the DAW, the length and position of the midi events would be scaled in a linear manner along the time axis.

    - Andreas

  4. #4

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    There are a lot of DAWs that can time stretch MIDI events....Logic being one of them.

  5. #5

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    Quote Originally Posted by spectrum View Post
    There are a lot of DAWs that can time stretch MIDI events....Logic being one of them.
    Yes....of course...I mean...I know...

    I'm talking about workflow here. Stretching the midi pattern dragged from Stylus to the DAW can be done in a seperate step but e.g. rehearsing patterns in Stylus in groove mode without syncing/stretching *within* Stylus becomes very difficult if not impossible.

    Well, I feel a bit embarrassed now...I've been lurker on this forum for a few years and this is only my 10th post and I'm only criticizing here...but I virtually teared one's (i.e. mine) hair over this 6/8 thing.

    Now back to making music

    Andreas

  6. #6

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    FWIW, it would probably be simpler to convert a 4/4 groove to 6/8 in Time Designer in RMX than to try to use a 6/8 groove that Drums on Demand incorrectly marked as 4/4 in the REX file.

    - Glenn
    Glenn O
    Spectrasonics

  7. #7

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    FWIW, it would probably be simpler to convert a 4/4 groove to 6/8 in Time Designer in RMX than to try to use a 6/8 groove that Drums on Demand incorrectly marked as 4/4 in the REX file.

    - Glenn
    Hi Glenn!

    Made some quick tests which have eventually clarified things for me.

    1st...if a pattern is originally marked as 6/8 or 3/4 then the midi pattern dragged into the daw reflects this. Lost track of this simple fact while experimenting and searching. So everything is okay with this.

    2nd...Changing an original 4/4 pattern to e.g. 6/8 yields the same (correct) result when dragging it into the DAW.

    3rd...I don't want to blame DoD. Their patterns whose names start with 6_8 or 3_4 are 6/8 or 3/4 pattern. However, there are 4/4 pattern with a triplet feeling which I choose for my song but it's not wrong to consider (and correctly name) these as 4/4 pattern. So everything is okay on their side also

    But one question remains and that probably also lead me to the opinion that everything is 4/4 in rex/rmx. As I see it the display in time designer always has 4 vertical bars per number (1...2...3...4...) which stand for quarter notes. Hence, e.g. a 2 bar 3/4 pattern (which is equal to 6 quarter notes in length) covers the area between 1 and the middle between 2 and 3.

    To both of you...thanks for your comments! They have really helped me!

    Andreas

  8. #8

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    Quote Originally Posted by slippermen0 View Post
    But one question remains and that probably also lead me to the opinion that everything is 4/4 in rex/rmx. As I see it the display in time designer always has 4 vertical bars per number (1...2...3...4...) which stand for quarter notes. Hence, e.g. a 2 bar 3/4 pattern (which is equal to 6 quarter notes in length) covers the area between 1 and the middle between 2 and 3.
    If you load a 6/8 groove in to RMX, the time designer display will show 6 beats, not 4 and it will show 6/8 for the original time signature, not 4/4. If you have a groove which sounds 6/8, but has been incorrectly marked as 4/4 in the REX file, which is the case with your groove, RMX will treat it as 4/4.

    - Glenn
    Glenn O
    Spectrasonics

  9. #9

    Re: Stylus RMX and non 4/4 measures

    Quote Originally Posted by GlennO View Post
    If you load a 6/8 groove in to RMX, the time designer display will show 6 beats, not 4 and it will show 6/8 for the original time signature, not 4/4. If you have a groove which sounds 6/8, but has been incorrectly marked as 4/4 in the REX file, which is the case with your groove, RMX will treat it as 4/4.

    - Glenn
    Well, I cannot see this behaviour. If time designer says (3/4) - with brackets - as top most entry in the meter drop down box, does that mean a pattern is a true 3/4 pattern? Such patterns are also displayed with a ruler that has 4 ticks per bar. Same for 6/8 patterns showing (6/8) as topmost entry. Still only 4 ticks per bar.

    Just my observation. I don't have recycle so I cannot "look" into the files in another way to see how they are marked, etc.

    Andreas

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