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Topic: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

  1. #1

    Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    A short while ago I asked about applying vibrato to instruments in Sonar and had some great replies.

    The problem now is that I can't remove it. I've erased all the aftertouch data in the PRV and checked the MIDI data is clean ... but that ol' vibrato just goes on and on.

    I've even tried deleting the entire affected instrument track then importing a 'clean' vibrato-free into a new MIDI track in the score. Yes .. the vibrato is there like it's been stuck with superglue or welded in.

    There must be a way of removing it or am I facing having to rebuild my entire score from the beginning?

    As always I'd be grateful for any help with this.

    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  2. #2

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    It may be set as the knob in Aria? This may not default to zero. Try looking at the controls page on Aria and see if you can adjust it there.

  3. #3

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    I'm rather sure I have the solution. Let's see if this is it:

    Go to the Event List View. Every piece of MIDI data in a project is in there, on a track by track basis.

    The controls at the top left turn various kinds of data off and on. You want to thin out the view by turning off the note display and everything else except Aftertouch which is the 5th button from the left.

    AND it's most likely that your stray Aftertouch data has been hidden when you did some editing, like shortening a clip. Use the 4th button from the right in the menu to Show Cropped.

    My bet is that you'll find the unwanted data.

    Let me know if that worked!


  4. #4

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    Hello Reegs and Randy,

    Thanks for your replies but the problem persists.


    That vib knob in Aria is set at 50% both in Finale and Sonar. In Finale there is no vibrato at all. I tried setting this to zero in my Sonar score but it just reduced the vibrato to being much slower.

    Also, I tried opening a new page in Sonar with just one track and imported the midi file from Finale and there was no vibrato at all. The knob in Aria was set at 50% just as in Finale.


    I tried the 'Event View' in Sonar and followed your suggestions. This file is squeaky clean. Not a trace of aftertouch anywhere. I also tried the 'Event Manager' selecting just the Aftertouch boxes with the same result.

    Looks like I'm facing a rebuild of that score.

    Thanks again for your help.
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  5. #5

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    Well hmmm. For the Aftertouch vibrato to persist means there's AT data somewhere in the file. That was verified when you deleted the instrument and brought it in fresh again.

    If your description is accurate, somehow this stray AT is effecting several MIDI channels, or you have instruments sharing channels?

    "...I tried setting this to zero in my Sonar score but it just reduced the vibrato to being much slower..." That would indicate that you were using the vibrato speed control instead of AT itself.

    'Tis a puzzler indeed. The plan to start your score all over must be disheartening. I suppose if you do that, you'll avoid using AT since it somehow ends up being so uncontrollable?

    But there's something wrong here, wish I could figure it out!


  6. #6

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    How about reloading the Aria instrument? Any luck if you do that?

  7. #7

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    Well I have some results.

    First, deleting the Aria Player then opening a new one does the trick. No more vibrato. It just means having to reload all sixteen instruments and their settings. Bit of a pain but better than having to rebuild the entire score.

    I also found that when ading Aftertouch using the PRV draw tool then deleting the data in PRV this does remove the vibrato. However, when adding the Aftertouch using the envelope method, deleting the envelope doesn't remove the aftertouch. The vibrato is still there but nothing shows in the 'Event List'.

    I know the PRV way is quicker and easier but I just experimented after the replies to my original post. Deleting the Aria Player then opening a new one seems to be the only way to clear the Atertouch after using the envelope.

    Thanks again Reegs and Randy, much appreciated.
    Patience is a virtue, sensitivity is a gift

  8. #8

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    Oh, yeah the automation and envelope controls in Sonar are still ...problematic.

    Glad you got it resolved!

  9. #9

    Re: Sonar and Aftertouch (Vibrato) - Again

    You figured it out--that's great, Michael!

    Do you have the current Aria with the ensemble browser in the upper left hand corner? Besides the template ensembles on that menu, you can add your own. You just save your current set up, give it a name, and it's then always available as a pre-set.

    "...adding the Aftertouch using the envelope method, deleting the envelope doesn't remove the aftertouch..."

    Interesting! Aftertouch I've never tried on an envelope - in fact I've only extremely rarely experimented with using envelopes for MIDI data, always using PRV. Worth the experiment though.

    What you're saying about this behavior, the Aftertouch not being actually gone after you deleted the envelope - it's making a bit of sense to me. I use envelopes only on audio tracks. I know that if I have a volume envelope which I decide I don't like, if I delete it, that doesn't re-set the volume to zero - it's not as if volume is now gone from the track. I wonder if something of that sort went on with your AT envelope?

    In the Event List, if you click "Show Cropped," in my experience it really does show all the data that's been hidden for various reasons--deleted portions of MIDI tracks, collapsed tracks. It seems like it would have to show your deleted AT envelope also. Hmmmm.

    In any case--experiment over, stick with the good ol' PRV.--AND--well, too late now I guess, but if you have the current Aria, don't forget you can save your own customized ensembles.


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