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Topic: Aria ignores first note

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  1. #1

    Aria ignores first note

    When I try to bounce to audio using Aria, the first MIDI note is skipped if that note is located at 1:01:000. I am using Sonar Home Studio 7. This problem only exists when using Aria (Kontakt, and other soft synths are OK). I even dug up my old copy of HS6 and it has the same result. I just started noticing this as most of the stuff I sequence has pick-up notes that begin toward the end of measure 1, so the problem didn't exist.

    Is there some setting I have messed up in Aria causing it to ignore any notes at 1:01:000? It doesn't seem to matter what duration the note is (quarter, sixteenth, etc.).

    I have tried regular and fast bouncing with results the same. It surely is something stupid I'm doing but I can't figure out what. To me it looks like the "now" time doesn't go back far enough to catch the first note, but that should be the same no matter which synth I use. The MBT indicator shows that the now time starts at 1:01:000.

    Any help will be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks,

    Tom

  2. #2

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    I don't remember what is the cause of this issue, but adding an empty(silence) bar/measure at the beginning should "fix" it.
    Pascal Maheux, Plogue Art et Technologie Inc.
    Montréal. http://www.plogue.com

  3. #3

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Pascal,

    Thanks for the reply and that is indeed the workaround I'm using. I set a real high tempo for the first measure (to avoid the start delay) then set the desired tempo at measure 2. Still it's kind of a pain to go through this using Aria when the other synths I use (including a couple of hardware synths), don't require it.

    When I just listen to the piece of music (MIDI) using Aria, it picks up all the notes. It's only when I want to record the audio (bounce to an audio track) that it chooses to ignore all notes that start at 1:01:000. I even tried setting the notes a few ticks late in case it was a timing problem on start, but to no avail.

    I surmise by what you said that I'm not alone in this situation and hope maybe someone has a fix.

    Thanks again for your reply,

    Tom

  4. #4
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    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Sonar needs time at the beginning to send out data. Speeding up the tempo that fast causes sonar not enough time to do the original data so it has to catch up messing up the first notes. Add the extra measure but keep the tempo at the same speed as your sequence. Cut out the silence out at the beginning after bouncing to an audio track.

    Jim

  5. #5

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Jim,

    Thanks so much for your reply. I think you might have misunderstood about the tempo thing. The first note (if located at 1:01:000) is missed no matter how slow or fast the tempo is. The workaround is just to start the piece of music at measure 2 instead of 1. Since measure 1 is blank, I use a fast tempo for it and then slow the tempo down to what I want for the piece at measure 2. By using a very fast tempo, the dead time is minimized. Sonar doesn't have to read any notes at the fast tempo, the first notes it sees are at the beginning of measure 2 which are at a reasonable tempo.

    Your suggestion about eliminating the dead time in the audio domain is good, but I still think it's a bit of a pain to have to do all this only when using Aria. It's apparently not a Sonar problem since all other synths work fine except Aria.

    Thanks again for your time,

    Tom

  6. #6

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Jim knew exactly what you were saying. Sonar needs time at the beginning to send data.

    I am a Sonar user and I have hundreds of compositions to my credit. Each has a blank measure at the beginning.

    Regards,
    Larry G. Alexander
    www.alexandermusic.com

  7. #7

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry G. Alexander View Post
    Jim knew exactly what you were saying. Sonar needs time at the beginning to send data.

    I am a Sonar user and I have hundreds of compositions to my credit. Each has a blank measure at the beginning.

    Regards,
    Not hundreds, but I always insert a blank measure.......

    Raymond

  8. #8

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Thanks to all, but I still don't see how this is a Sonar problem - taking time to straighten itself out at the beginning. I just checked again, and Kontakt and other synths do not exhibit the "Sonar" problem, only Aria. For the record, as long as I start my Aria piece at measure 2, I can set the tempo to 1000 BPM, bounce to audio, and the first note of the piece (located now at 2:01:000) sounds OK. If I start my Aria piece at measure 1 (1:01:000) , even at 1 BPM the first note will not show up in the audio track. Based on this, I don't think tempo has any bearing on the problem. I'm sorry I got into any mention of tempo. Since I must have a blank measure at the start of every Aria piece, I simply give that blank measure a quick tempo to cut down the wait time. The move to measure 2 was necessitated by Aria's skipping the first note, regardless of the piece's tempo, not because of any fast tempo.

    It seems as though I've made everyone angry and I sincerely apologize. I'm just trying to see if there is something I have overlooked. I surmise everyone who uses Aria has the same problem and is happy with the measure 2 start. Earlier in the thread, a gentleman named Pascal said he thought there was a fix but couldn't remember what it was.

    I'll not waste any more of your time on this, I appreciate the time you have spent.

    Tom

  9. #9
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    Re: Aria ignores first note

    It's not the tempo that is the problem. It's the time that Sonar needs to send data to the plugins before the first note starts.

    I always leave a measure at the beginning of all pieces. I insert controller data such as initial volume, panning, and other controller info in this measure. There will always be time needed for this data to be sent before the first note sounds no matter which plugins you use. This is an even bigger issue if you use external synths and effects using regular MIDI connections as the MIDI spec can only send data at a limited rate of speed. The more controller data you have, the more glitching will occur. In the early days of MIDI this caused major timing issues in the first measure. I started adding the extra measure 25 years ago and it hasn't failed me since.

    Jim

  10. #10

    Re: Aria ignores first note

    Listen to the advice on the thread, TinPan. I don't detect anger in anyone's responses, they've just been telling you how to fix your problem.

    It's always a good idea to have a blank measure at the top of a Sonar project, no matter what soft synths you're using, and that's the way the vast majority of experienced users set their projects up.

    "...Since measure 1 is blank, I use a fast tempo for it and then slow the tempo down to what I want for the piece at measure 2..."


    You're not understanding that it isn't necessary to insert that one measure of faster tempo. I understand you're doing it to hurry things up so the music starts ASAP. - But at some point you'll export your mix. Most of us do some mastering work once we have a 2-track master. That can be worked on in a dedicated audio editing program like Sound Forge, or re-imported into Sonar as a fresh project. At that time, you cut off the opening blank measure. --That's standard procedure.

    Randy

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