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Topic: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

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  1. #1

    Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    I'm pretty new to Aria GPO4 and Sonar 8.5.

    As I saw in another post, I am trying to construct template with each instrument group in it's own instance of Aria.

    I did strings on the first instance (multi VST x64 1)and everything is fine.

    I opened a second instance (multi VST x64 2) to do brass, but no sound is generated. Clicking on the Aria keyboard or playing the midi keyboard - no sound. (The keyboard on the first instance plays whatever instrument is lit up). It seems to me this would have to work , before sonar could get a sound out of it.

    Any hints for what I am sure is a silly beginners problem?

    Thanks in advance.

    John

  2. #2

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    One thing I've run into a few times now as a new GPO user myself, is the modulation wheel in Aria being turned all the way down. So no matter where the faders are, there's no sound. Of course, this could be totally unrelated to the issue you're having.

  3. #3

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Thanks, but that's not it. Mod wheel is up.
    John

  4. #4

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    In Sonar make sure "zero controllers when play stops" is unchecked in Options>Project Options>MIDI Out tab.

    I am no expert but if your template was saved after the controllers were automatically zeroed out, you may have to recreate it with the zero option unchecked first, otherwise the zeroed controllers are saved.
    In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.

    http://reberclark.blogspot.com http://reberclark.bandcamp.com http://www.youtube.com/reberclark

  5. #5

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Hi, John - Welcome to the Forum, and to GPO.

    I've used GPO and Sonar for quite awhile and can usually help people figure problems out, so let's see what we can do here. I'll add that it can be difficult to get things clear because of the limitation of communicating only via text.

    More information will help us see what the problem is.

    --How are you inserting these instances of Aria in Sonar? People set their soft synths up in several different ways, but here's the Standard Approved method:

    Top menu in Sonar click Insert>Soft Synth>Garritan>ARIA Player Multi VST. - I think that's the way you're already doing, so far so good.

    In the insert dialogue - Check "MIDI Source" and "All Synth Audio Outputs." That will insert 16 tracks in Sonar, each connected to the 16 slots in Aria. That starts you out with one MIDI track, but you'll need to insert others as needed, assigning them to the appropriate MIDI channels and audio outs.

    In Aria the 16 instrument slots default to the 16 MIDI channels, logically laid out so slots and channels match up.

    But the default for the audio is for all 16 Aria slots to be directed to only the first audio audio out, labeled "1/2." You can see that info in the narrow gray box under each black box where the names of instruments appear. That gray box in the first slot says "Tune 0 Def 1/2 1."
    Grabbing the numeric displays is how you change the tuning of an instrument, change its default pitch bend range, its audio out, and MIDI channel.

    The easiest, least confusing way to set your Aria up is to change the audio outs for each slot so they match the MIDI channel and number of the slot. You can see the options are to use audio outs "1/2" on through to "31/32." They're labeled that way to indicate the left and right pair that make up each stereo out.

    Once you've done that, all of your Aria outs match the 16 audio channels in Sonar which were inserted with the synth.

    Now look at the MIDI track Sonar inserted with Aria. It's been assigned to Aria, but no MIDI channel has been assigned. Use the controls in the track header to change that to 1:Aria Player multi."

    Then insert 15 more MIDI tracks and assign them to the other Aria slots.

    When selecting any of those MIDI tracks in Sonar, now when you play your keyboard, you should hear the instrument you have loaded in that slot.

    If you don't hear anything - then there is still an issue with CC1, as Steve suggested.

    VERY IMPORTANT FOR GPO USERS IN SONAR


    For every project in Sonar, You MUST do the following, or you'll consistently not hear your instruments:

    Top menu in Sonar Options>Project>MIDI OUT, under "Other Options" UN-check the line that says "Zero Controllers When Play Stops." The default is for that to be checked, On. Garritan users MUST un-check that. With that left on, every time you stop playback of your project, CC1 will be re-set to zero. With it un-checked, CC1 will remain at whatever level you left it at

    Let's see if any of this helps so far.

    Randy

  6. #6

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Not to butt in line, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    The easiest, least confusing way to set your Aria up is to change the audio outs for each slot so they match the MIDI channel and number of the slot. You can see the options are to use audio outs "1/2" on through to "31/32." They're labeled that way to indicate the left and right pair that make up each stereo out.
    I wish I had that many outputs. I've got eight stereo pairs, so would have to reuse among the 16 outs. Either that or use some combination of mono and stereo, which may not be a bad idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    Then insert 15 more MIDI tracks and assign them to the other Aria slots.
    That's a really good idea! Pack it all in a folder and you're good to go.


    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    For every project in Sonar, You MUST do the following, or you'll consistently not hear your instruments:
    Top menu in Sonar Options>Project>MIDI OUT, under "Other Options" UN-check the line that says "Zero Controllers When Play Stops." The default is for that to be checked, On. Garritan users MUST un-check that. With that left on, every time you stop playback of your project, CC1 will be re-set to zero. With it un-checked, CC1 will remain at whatever level you left it at
    It's probably best to change your default template rather than having to remember this for each new project. I know that's what I'm going to do, memory being what it is these days...

  7. #7

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Hi, Steve - It's fine you're adding to this thread, because both you and John are new GPO users, dealing with the same growing pains. The posts will be helpful to both of you.

    About the 16 stereo outs:

    Quote Originally Posted by stevec View Post
    ...I wish I had that many outputs. I've got eight stereo pairs, so would have to reuse among the 16 outs..."
    Something's not right there, Steve. It doesn't take any special equipment to have all 16 slots available. With things set up correctly, everyone has 16 stereo outs coming from Aria. If you give more info, we'll try to straighten that out.

    About 16 MIDI tracks:
    Quote Originally Posted by stevec View Post
    ...That's a really good idea! Pack it all in a folder and you're good to go...
    Well, it's basic operation - You have to have separate MIDI tracks for each slot. Some people double instruments up on channels, and that works, but it's an advanced technique to experiment with later.

    But you don't necessarily need the folder. Some people like them - I don't. I've tried them a few times, but it annoys me to not have visual contact with all my tracks all the time. This topic was on a Sonar thread recently, and another long time Sonar user mentioned how he also doesn't care for the folders. I would suggest not using them at first - it really can add to the confusion.

    About "zero controllers"-:

    Quote Originally Posted by stevec View Post
    It's probably best to change your default template rather than having to remember this for each new project. I know that's what I'm going to do, memory being what it is these days...
    Templates can be handy sometimes, or overly rigid. Every time I've set up a template I think I'm going to use, I find myself not using it because each project is so unique, even with a template it can be like starting from scratch. What I often do is use an existing project as a template. If I have a mixer set up and instrumentation that is basically the same, I erase the data in an existing project, save it under the new project name - I have all my basic routing ready to go, like a template, but more specific.

    You get accustomed to the settings you need, but doing whatever you need to do to ALWAYS have "zero controllers" unchecked, then you'll never go through the inaudible instrument syndrome again.

    Be sure to get back on this problem of somehow having only half the audio outs you should have, Steve.

    Randy

  8. #8

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    About the 16 stereo outs:
    Something's not right there, Steve. It doesn't take any special equipment to have all 16 slots available. With things set up correctly, everyone has 16 stereo outs coming from Aria. If you give more info, we'll try to straighten that out.
    Ignore me on that one. For whatever reason I was thinking Aria slot -> SONAR track -> audio output. Does it make a lot of sense? Well no, not really.


    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post

    About 16 MIDI tracks:
    Well, it's basic operation - You have to have separate MIDI tracks for each slot. Some people double instruments up on channels, and that works, but it's an advanced technique to experiment with later.
    I just hadn't thought to create the MIDI tracks ahead of time. There's a case where I've been adding them as I go along. But I like this idea better.


    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    But you don't necessarily need the folder. Some people like them - I don't. I've tried them a few times, but it annoys me to not have visual contact with all my tracks all the time. This topic was on a Sonar thread recently, and another long time Sonar user mentioned how he also doesn't care for the folders. I would suggest not using them at first - it really can add to the confusion.
    If I were to use a single multi-track instance of Aria, I wouldn't use a folder either. But if I start adding more tracks and instruments and such, I prefer to keep a set of 16 tracks nested in a folder than to scroll up and down among those same 16 tracks.. IOW, expand the folder when I'm working on those tracks, compress it when I'm not. It's definitely a personal preference thing.


    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    About "zero controllers"-:
    Templates can be handy sometimes, or overly rigid. Every time I've set up a template I think I'm going to use, I find myself not using it because each project is so unique, even with a template it can be like starting from scratch. What I often do is use an existing project as a template. If I have a mixer set up and instrumentation that is basically the same, I erase the data in an existing project, save it under the new project name - I have all my basic routing ready to go, like a template, but more specific.

    You get accustomed to the settings you need, but doing whatever you need to do to ALWAYS have "zero controllers" unchecked, then you'll never go through the inaudible instrument syndrome again.
    If I know I'm going to be working with GPO - and for the short term I will on every project - I'd rather use a "GPO" template since that one setting makes GPO somewhat unusable. Maybe if I have enough projects to choose from somewhere down the road I may use them as templates. But with only one in-progress project I'm nowhere near that point! At least not yet.

  9. #9

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Hi, Steve - Good deal, glad you got it straight that you really do have 16 stereo outs from Aria.

    Having a special template for GPO is a very good idea - And you're right that folders or not really is a matter of personal preference. I'll have 40, 60 tracks, and I still want to see them all on my screen - the vertical scrolling doesn't bother me.

    Sounds like you're doing well with it all!
    Randy

  10. #10

    Re: Multiple instances of Aria in Sonar. No sound from second instance.

    Yup, I think I've got the physical aspect of setting up Aria pretty well under control. Actually *using* Aria and getting decent results? Well, that might take some time...

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