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Topic: Garritan Guitar Technique

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  1. #1

    Garritan Guitar Technique

    Has anyone had any luck creating hammer-ons and pull-offs with any of the Garritan guitars? I've been trying using the wheel controller and changing the pitch instantaneously (without retriggering a sample). Unfortunately, even at that speed, there is a very distinct portamento up to the new note. (I have similar problems with guitar soundfonts, so maybe it's Sonar).

    Any ideas?

  2. #2
    Senior Member rpearl's Avatar
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    Re: Garritan Guitar Technique

    I don't know if this can be achieved with the samples. I think you have to have a library that includes those sounds. This one sounds pretty good: http://www.musesamples.com/

    There is another: http://www.rspe.com/IRCAM-Solo-Instr....html?flypage=

    But as you can see, they can get costly...
    Ron Pearl

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  3. #3

    Re: Garritan Guitar Technique

    I think the guitars in JABB are fine for rhythm work and not very demanding leads, but like many relatively unsophisticated guitar sample collections, they don't lend themselves to the kind of detail work you're wanting to do.

    "...there is a very distinct portamento up to the new note..."

    I'm not understanding that. There shouldn't be any portamento unless you've asked for that via CC control. It's for sure not due to Sonar or any other sequencer--music recording programs are just conduits for whatever the soft synths you're using are capable of.

    Randy

  4. #4

    Re: Garritan Guitar Technique

    Guitar articulations are among the instrument sounds that are the hardest to replicate with samples or synthesized sounds. There are many stand-alone products that take different clever approaches to trying to overcome this. All the more successful ones use proprietary synthesis techniques and algorithms to try and calculate what an actual guitarist would do with his six (or more or less) strings and his two hands, and try to take input from a keyboard or sequencer and output remapped musical phrases that a guitarist would actually play, which is usually very different from how a keyboardist would voice the chords or licks.

    Even as good as GPO and Aria are for most tasks, they aren't designed to provide any algorithms to remap a non-guitarist's sequences of notes into something a guitarist could actually execute with his two hands, let alone make it sound realistic. And there isn't a sampler or synth engine anywhere that can create realistic strumming on the fly.

    So if you want something that sounds like a guitarist is playing it, you need to go beyond GPO and Aria. Having said that, it's an elusive "holy grail" goal and nobody else has nailed it yet or, in my opinion, is likely to.

    I'm afraid you can rough out arrangements with guitar samples but you'll always want to hire a real session guitarist to record audio for you, and arrange and execute your parts in proper guitar style. And strumming is so simple in concept yet so elusively difficult to do correctly--I'm talking about real live guitar, not samples. That's why an excellent rhythm guitarist is much harder to find than a hotshot lead guitarist.
    Wheat Williams
    Atlanta, Georgia, USA
    Music Copyist in Sibelius
    Apple MacBook Pro, Mac OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion
    Apple Certified Support Professional. I also work with Windows.

  5. #5

    Re: Garritan Guitar Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by raweber View Post
    I've been trying using the wheel controller and changing the pitch instantaneously (without retriggering a sample). Unfortunately, even at that speed, there is a very distinct portamento up to the new note.
    Hi,

    Pitchbend would be more appropriate for bending strings, not hammer-on and pull-offs.

    I agree with everything said above about a more sophisticated guitar VTSi being able to give better results.

    But, lacking that, you might try playing with the attack of the notes. Hammer-ons and pull-offs are basically notes without much attack (because they are not played separately with the picking/strumming hand). I'm not at a PC with GPO/JABB, and I can't recall all the controls the guitars have, but I am pretty sure that is one for adjusting the attack of the note. Try lowering that with a CC change just for the hammer-on/pull-off notes (and remember to reset the attack value after those notes). Perhaps also try lowering the velocity of the hammer-on/pull-off notes, too. Yes, it can be a pain to edit a MIDI file so that each hammer-on/pull-off note has these CC messages. But it might be the best you can get with the GPO/JABB guitars right now.
    Best Regards,
    Ernie

  6. #6

    Re: Garritan Guitar Technique

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheat Williams View Post
    it's an elusive "holy grail" goal and nobody else has nailed it yet or, in my opinion, is likely to.
    You're right that it's one of the holy grails. But some of the physical modeling research that is happening on the academic level is promising. The big barrier in the past (and the present) was computing resources. Using technologies originally developed for the aerospace industry, real guitar mechanics are modeled very accurately today for acoustic research.

    Of course, having a strummable real time guitar that sounds realistic is a different animal. Real human gestures need to be mapped to the physical model (not a big problem), and the model needs to react in real time (the bigger challenge). In 20 years, I expect to see such an animal that can fool the finest human ear. It will largely depend on how much collaboration there is between researchers and industry. Even when the technology is there, people tend to not like to share--for reasons that we all know.
    "If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears, however measured or far away." – Henry Thoreau


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