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Topic: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

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  1. #1

    Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    I\'m interested to know if anyone out there is using Sibellius notation software over a conventional squencer such as cubase and how well it intagrates with gigasampler libraries.
    I\'m interested primarily in orchestral work and was considering taking a look at this package. However, I\'m not sure, what with key-switching etc., whether it\'s the right tool for the job. Anyone have any experience with it?

  2. #2

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    My business partner and I are using exactly this set up. It\'s still steep learning so these are early days but... it depends what you\'re trying to do.

    It all works fine in terms of basically trying to get the sounds matching the notation, but I would say from our experience so far that Sibelius is what it says - a notation package, not a sequencer as such. Its ability to play back sounds is useful for checking your inputting, giving immediate feedback when composing/arranging. But it\'s very limited. I would find it much more useful if you could view and edit the MIDI data stream directly, but you can\'t.

    There are ways of inserting control changes and programme changes in the score without them printing out but it\'s very frustrating and slow. Maybe as time goes by we\'ll discover some hidden delights that make it all easier. For proper adjustment of the playback it looks like we\'ll need to import the MIDI file into Logic and tweak it there (e.g. tempo mapping, dynamics etc).

    Having said all that, Sibelius is a fabulous notation package! Far better than our past experience with Finale, for example. It\'s just that you need the right tools for job in hand. I certainly wouldn\'t use the score elements of Logic for printing out where we need a pro finish. And Sibelius allows you to scan in music which is really useful for us.

  3. #3

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    Interesting... mmm...
    It would seem ideal for me to be able to use the notation of Sibellius if the package allowed easy integration of all the things that giga libraries allow. I can imagine that key-switching can cause a lot of head-aches for Sibellius in that the key-switch notes would appear on the score. I\'m guessing that you can\'t filter them out.
    I\'m using Cubase Score at the moment.
    To be honest, I\'m not a natural score writer, coming mainly from the play-on-keyboard/midi side of things. However, it would seem to me that viewing an orchestral score may be easier to visualise in a notation package.
    It would be nice to be able to allow Sibellius to map key-switches to score styles... e.g. portamento.
    Anyone else done this?

  4. #4

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    I think what you should do is to download the free demos for Finale and Sibelius to see if either of them can do what you want. One important question is whether or not you want to run the notation software on the same computer as GigaStudio. If so, then I would suggest staying away from both, as neither will give you the performance you\'ll achieve with something like Cakewalk. As for Finale vs. Sibelius, I actually believe you\'d be better off with Finale. Creating invisible MIDI expressions is easy, and you would also have the most powerful music notation program in the world (plus infinite free tech support). Take advantage of the free demos, and be sure to ask both companies for tech support on the demos if you have questions as neither program can be taken full advantage of with only a few days experience.

  5. #5

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    I use Finale with Gigastudio, and I have had no problems. I like Finale, it\'s rather easy to use. I notate the keyswitches with each note, in other words:the keyswitch will appear very low (usually) and appear to be out of range.

  6. #6

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    I\'ve used both Finale and Sibelius - I prefer Sibelius to Finale (it can be such a clunker sometimes!). Igor on the Mac is interesting, even though it is in its early pre-beta stages and it\'s quite buggy. Igor is even smart enough to perform your articulations on the fly, whereas Finale and Sibelius are not and you have to go through a considerable amount of work to have it play back anything. I have noticed that with Igor, you notate a gliss and it\'ll play a gliss, if you mark tremolo, it\'ll play tremolo depending on the speed that you indicate in the notation. It will pick up on dynamic markings too as far as I know (even crescendo/descrescendo). Check it out if you can, but the last version of it that I tried was still fairly buggy. I believe that they are releasing a somewhat final version of it soon if they haven\'t already.

    Ryan.

    ------------------
    Sonic Control
    www.soniccontrol.com
    Giga Users Network at
    www.soniccontrol.com/gigasampler/

  7. #7

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    I use Finale to do my score entry then save it as a midi file and \"tweak\" it for playback in Digital Performer. Sibelius and Finale are both great programs but I have been on Finale forever so I like it better for that reason.

    Donnie

  8. #8

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by donnie:
    I use Finale to do my score entry then save it as a midi file and \"tweak\" it for playback in Digital Performer. Sibelius and Finale are both great programs but I have been on Finale forever so I like it better for that reason.

    Donnie
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I find that I am the same way with Finale! Once you learn it, it becomes second nature. I have been using Finale longer than Sibelius as well and I feel less \"comfortable\" in Sibelius. I have found that most people I\'ve worked with still like to use Finale, so you almost have to have Finale on hand should you need to open their files since I don\'t think the Sibelius Finale import is 100% yet. In a perfect world, Finale would be able to read Sibelius documents perfectly and Sibelius would be able to read Finale documents perfectly.

    Ryan.


    ------------------
    Sonic Control
    www.soniccontrol.com
    Giga Users Network at
    www.soniccontrol.com/gigasampler/

  9. #9

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    I suppose the real question - and I know I should just see for myself - is:
    Do you prefer using Score tools to sequencers for orchestral work? Do you find them, overall, more intuitive for such large pieces? How do they cope with percussion, for instance? Do you have a seperate staff for each instrument? What if I want to do some contemprary stuff and - say - lay a rock drum beat over an orchestral score (yuck!), would it be able to notate that?
    Questions, questions...

  10. #10

    Re: Sibellius vs Cubase for Orchestration

    <BLOCKQUOTE><font size=\"1\" face=\"Verdana, Arial\">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paynterr:
    I suppose the real question - and I know I should just see for myself - is:
    Do you prefer using Score tools to sequencers for orchestral work? Do you find them, overall, more intuitive for such large pieces? How do they cope with percussion, for instance? Do you have a seperate staff for each instrument? What if I want to do some contemprary stuff and - say - lay a rock drum beat over an orchestral score (yuck!), would it be able to notate that?
    Questions, questions...
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    All very good questions. Personally, I have even found that the score portions of Logic can be quite good in a pinch, especially when I don\'t have Finale/Sibelius on hand or the time to put everything into a dedicated notation program. Logic\'s print quality is good enough to give out to musicians with some polishing and tweaking (if you input it by hand it looks even better, since sequences aren\'t always dead on). At least, the musicians that I have given Logic scores out to haven\'t complained too much!

    So, for me anyway, I can live either with the score tools in Logic or with Finale/Sibelius. Percussion tracks are easy to do in either, you just have to define the clef and you\'ll be set to go. Finale and Sibelius can let you customize the look of your score to an extent that I do not think Logic can, and that is especially useful for more complex scores I have found. Other sequencers might be better or worse in the notation department than others (I find Cakewalk to be rather clunky for notation, for example). So, for more large and complex scores, especially orchestral scores, I stick to a notation program but in a pinch Logic seems to do work just fine for me.

    Ryan.



    ------------------
    Sonic Control
    www.soniccontrol.com
    Giga Users Network at
    www.soniccontrol.com/gigasampler/

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