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Topic: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

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  1. #1

    What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    I am studying at the moment string writing and would love to use GPO in my Logic 8 all the time, but what is the best setup for this?

    I tried to use one instance of the Aria Player in Logic that contains all the strings (vl 1, vl 2, violas, cellos and DB), but I run into the problem that I cannot use the automation for every single track. Using a new Aria player instance for every instrument is heavy on my computer though. And because I also use divided string sections, I would like to have a realistic setup as possible, so that my 16 group of 1st violins when used divided (with 2 voices instead of 1 in this track) not suddenly sounds as a 32 violin group but as 2 times 8. How can I do all of this and did someone made a setup for Logic that he is willing to share?

    André
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  2. #2

    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I am studying at the moment string writing and would love to use GPO in my Logic 8 all the time, but what is the best setup for this?

    I tried to use one instance of the Aria Player in Logic that contains all the strings (vl 1, vl 2, violas, cellos and DB), but I run into the problem that I cannot use the automation for every single track. Using a new Aria player instance for every instrument is heavy on my computer though. And because I also use divided string sections, I would like to have a realistic setup as possible, so that my 16 group of 1st violins when used divided (with 2 voices instead of 1 in this track) not suddenly sounds as a 32 violin group but as 2 times 8. How can I do all of this and did someone made a setup for Logic that he is willing to share?

    André
    Have you tried the Logic Forum? I found the link below that talks about using GPO4 with Logic, and you are likely to find more help there, since there are so few on this forum who use Logic... Give this a try:

    GPO4 hangs in Logic Pro 8 - Logic Users Group

    I would love to help you if I could, but I know nothing about Logic, as you well know by now. I think the Logic forum may be the better place to find answers at this time if you have questions about Logic.

    Please don't get discouraged. You write some very good music.

    Arvid
    Arvid Hand
    Theory-Comp./Piano
    ASCAP

  3. #3
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    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I am studying at the moment string writing and would love to use GPO in my Logic 8 all the time, but what is the best setup for this?

    I tried to use one instance of the Aria Player in Logic that contains all the strings (vl 1, vl 2, violas, cellos and DB), but I run into the problem that I cannot use the automation for every single track. Using a new Aria player instance for every instrument is heavy on my computer though. And because I also use divided string sections, I would like to have a realistic setup as possible, so that my 16 group of 1st violins when used divided (with 2 voices instead of 1 in this track) not suddenly sounds as a 32 violin group but as 2 times 8. How can I do all of this and did someone made a setup for Logic that he is willing to share?

    André
    Hi André,

    Despite having bought GPO4 last year, I'm still a novice around here myself, so I may be speaking with foot in mouth so to speak!

    Recently, I've been doing some research on a similar problem and discovered an
    American composer named John Charles Melcher, who bought GPO4 in March of this year and experimented to check out the Ensemble Building features. Needless to say, he found the library to be an invaluable tool to add to his "arsenal"! He wrote an essay on the subject of building divisi string sections with GPO4, which can be found at:

    http://www.johnmelcher.net/Assets/PDFs/String%20Divisi%20with%20GPO4.pdf

    Strangely, he seems to have been somewhat misinformed regarding the issue of combining "plr" with "solo" instruments and pressed on regardless with building theoretically impossible ensembles and dividing them as he wished! The mp3 demo he provides in the essay page, however, does not appear to exhibit any signs of phasing or other artefacts. I should add that I have tried the violins 1 and 2 ensembles in standalone players on a short segment from the Vaughan Williams Tallis Fantasia and didn't hear any problems there either ( other than the fact that I tried "thickening" the sections and got a bit too heavy handed on cc22, resulting in a string section quite close to the "school orchestra effect" that he describes in the essay - lol)! As you will see, he includes a link to a whole collection of ensemble files with numerous division schemes.

    Some caveats, I'm afraid -
    1. Sadly, my wallet and the neighbours don't permit me to have a "studio quality" monitoring system in my small flat so "nasties" may still turn up in better listening conditions;
    2. Each ensemble as set up requires a separate player;
    3. I'm not a Logic user and therefore am not sure if the ensemble files can be loaded directly into the plugin version of Aria within Logic - you may have to set the plugins up using the standalone as an example and save as a patch;
    4. You will of course have to assign midi channels, and cc22, "to taste" (all files start with their first divisions on channel 1 by default)
    5. Just a personal taste issue, but I'd regard the use of Auto Legato as something of a "judgement call" with strings!

    Please note that, while the ensembles may sound reasonable for monitoring or scoring purposes (i.e. "close enough for jazz"), I still would not advise disregarding the phasing warnings in the User Guide when mixing down and rendering. Like a number of members here, I tend to craft "cloned" midi tracks so that each "performer" in an ensemble has an individual performance and "stem render" ("freeze" in Logic-speak?) each track before mix down ( not to say, of course, that I've actually "mastered" the technique). Once that is done, GPO caveats no longer apply! It does, of course, require an apparently inordinate number of audio tracks but the job can be done with one single channel player instance once the original midi tracks are complete, and the resulting audio tracks don't take anything like the amount of system resources that the player plugins would.

    Apologies if any of the above is disappointing (or just plain long-winded?), but I hope you find at least some of it useful, if only as a basis for experimentation! I have some aspirations towards starting full orchestra projects in the near future (currently working on a Clarinet Quintet) and I'd appreciate knowing how this "pans out" for you (ouch! - was that another recording pun?)

    Best Regards,
    Keith

  4. #4

    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    Oh that infamous divisi myth. I wish more people would care to use and write for the sections they have before they bother divisi and multiple solo samples stacking and all that. I still have to hear an example that justifies the effort.

    Sorry but I see this seems to eat up whole composer's careers. Three weeks of Fux counterpoint study and linear writing will save you ten years of divisi mystery.
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

  5. #5

    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    I was able to make a very good working divisi chamber string ensemble template. Every divisi now is on its own aria instance and there for controllable. I believe it is very good to be conscious of the divisi writing and especially recording.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  6. #6

    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hannes_F View Post
    Three weeks of Fux counterpoint study and linear writing will save you ten years of divisi mystery.
    I second that motion!!!

    Arvid
    Arvid Hand
    Theory-Comp./Piano
    ASCAP

  7. #7

    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    Quote Originally Posted by bionicbub View Post
    I second that motion!!!

    Arvid
    I studied counterpoint when doing my music study many years ago and studied and played a lot of Bach, also wrote many fugues and double fugues, I am not sure though what this has to do with the problem of recording and writing correct divided string music.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  8. #8

    Re: What is the best setup in Logig for a string orchestra? Someone made a template?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I studied counterpoint when doing my music study many years ago and studied and played a lot of Bach, also wrote many fugues and double fugues
    Then my comment does not apply to you personally, and no need to put on shoes that don't fit, right

    I wrote this because a lot of divisi questions for string samples come because aspiring composers simply don't know how to translate two fistful of fingers on the keyboard into a proper strings writing, and distributing each finger to one voice seems to be the easiest solution then. Over all this unsolved question can block their progress however.

    This is especially true for non-trained composers, and I must know because I have had the pleasure to meet some of the most musical and creative composers in the non-trained departure. And it is a pity something that is basically easy should be solved with non-optimal means.
    All your strings belong to me!
    www.strings-on-demand.com

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