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Topic: Can't get velocity to work...

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  1. #1

    Can't get velocity to work...

    When using the string patches, (the only one I am working with right now in GPO), I noticed that it doesn't matter how soft or load I play on my digital piano, everything has the same velocity. I tried it with another library, Apples Orchestral Jam pack in this case, strings as well, and it works normal as expected. is there a setting in GPO that I have overlooked?

    André
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  2. #2

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Andre the velocity will still be there as far as the attack of the instrument is concerned. If you are worried that the volume is not changing, that is because it is controlled by the mod wheel on your keyboard. Took me A bit to figure this out too because im soo used to the velocity controlling the volume also.

    Hope this helps

    Erik

  3. #3

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    it doesn't matter how soft or load I play on my digital piano, everything has the same velocity.
    Andre --

    I use Sonar as my sequencer, but I believe just about all sequencers have a dialog box in which MIDI events are filtered, and you can control which events are filtered. It sounds to me like your sequencer (Logic 8?) is filtering out the velocity signals coming from your keyboard (or whatever your input source is), and so everything has the same (default) velocity.

    Try playing around with your MIDI filtering, examine the current settings and see if the recording of velocity is turned on or off.

    Arvid
    Arvid Hand
    Theory-Comp./Piano
    ASCAP

  4. #4

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by bionicbub View Post
    Andre --

    I use Sonar as my sequencer, but I believe just about all sequencers have a dialog box in which MIDI events are filtered, and you can control which events are filtered. It sounds to me like your sequencer (Logic 8?) is filtering out the velocity signals coming from your keyboard (or whatever your input source is), and so everything has the same (default) velocity.

    Try playing around with your MIDI filtering, examine the current settings and see if the recording of velocity is turned on or off.

    Arvid
    Hi Arvid,
    I don't think that Logic is filtering the velocity data, because when I change to another sample instrument that is not GPO, for example Logics own samples or the Apple Jam packs, everything works normal. playing soft or loud n my piano, plays those samples soft or loud. Not GPO though. There must be a setting in GPO that prevents this from happening, but I cannot find anything.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  5. #5

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    Hi Arvid,
    I don't think that Logic is filtering the velocity data, because when I change to another sample instrument that is not GPO, for example Logics own samples or the Apple Jam packs, everything works normal. playing soft or loud n my piano, plays those samples soft or loud. Not GPO though. There must be a setting in GPO that prevents this from happening, but I cannot find anything.
    It should not have anything to do with which library you are playing. The MIDI data comes directly in from the keyboard, not through the library. (The library is at the tail end of the process, you see.) Do you have MIDI Thru turned on? And is your MIDI Thru filtering out the velocities? There is something somewhere in Logic or a button on your keyboard controller, not in GPO, that is blocking the velocity controller data, see what I mean? I don't have any idea where those settings are in Logic or on your keyboard, but it should not be hard to find them. Logic may be altering its own settings somehow when the Aria Player is loaded. I have seen that happen in other sequencers with other players as well, so you definitely need to check all your controller data routing and if you can't find anything there, then I would suggest looking for an answer on the Logic forum, because I don't believe it has anything to do with GPO.

    ADDENDUM:
    Here is some information I gleaned from the Logic forum. It appears there is a "gate" setting for each track that you need to check. The problem described below is one that affects the length of every note, but the same principle applies to velocity and other settings as well, as the writer describes it (the emphasis added is my own):

    The only thing I can think of is that you have the gate time of your various tracks set to something other than "inactive" (represented by the "-" mark). To locate this parameter, click on any GPO track and then look at the upper LH corner of the Arrange window for the realtime parameters.These include velocity, delay, tranposition, loop, and... gate time.

    If this parameter is set to, say, 50% (for example), then whatever you play or record will sound right as you're playing it. But playback is affected. In this case, the length of your notes (the "gate", or, the time that a note is pressed and held -- as it was recorded) will be reduced by 1/2. At more extreme settings, long sustained notes will simply "blip".

    If this is the problem, simply check each GPO track and set the gate time to the "-" setting.
    He is talking about the gate time for note duration, but he refers to a velocity setting in that same location, you might check to see if that is the problem. Also, check the raw MIDI data of your tracks and see if the MIDI data is being recorded in the first place.
    Arvid Hand
    Theory-Comp./Piano
    ASCAP

  6. #6

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by rsfreak View Post
    Andre the velocity will still be there as far as the attack of the instrument is concerned. If you are worried that the volume is not changing, that is because it is controlled by the mod wheel on your keyboard. Took me A bit to figure this out too because im soo used to the velocity controlling the volume also.

    Hope this helps

    Erik

    I think Erik's got it. Modwheel (CC1) data controls the volume of samples in GPO, along with their brightness and timbre. Velocity controls how sharp the attack is.

  7. #7

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by Reegs View Post
    I think Erik's got it. Modwheel (CC1) data controls the volume of samples in GPO, along with their brightness and timbre. Velocity controls how sharp the attack is.
    Hi Erik,
    my keyboard doesn't have a modwheel, with other libraries than GPO, I am able to make dynamic differences just by playing and I really mean the velocity attack, hitting the keys louder or softer, not the volume dynamics. When I hit the keys really hard while having GPO loaded, I get the same sounds as when I play very soft.

    I checked Logic and my digital piano if the midi settings are OK, in Logic I cannot find any midi filters who would prevent velocity midi coming into GPO. But I don't believe this is the problem because every other library works normally.

    André
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  8. #8

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    I made 2 different bounces from a short clip I played on my midi keyboard into Logic. 1 is bounced with Apples Jam pack full strings, the other with GPO full String standard. You can hear my frustration here, there is no difference in volume in the GPO bounce. I don't know if I have to call this a volume or attack problem, the thing is that I always am able to play in different dynamic levels on my piano with every other library but not with GPO. There must be a setting in side GPO itself, or maybe I am loading the library in a wrong way?

    Jam pack full strings
    GPO full strings


    I hope someone can help me here, because this is very frustrating.
    André
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  9. #9

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I made 2 different bounces from a short clip I played on my midi keyboard into Logic. 1 is bounced with Apples Jam pack full strings, the other with GPO full String standard. You can hear my frustration here, there is no difference in volume in the GPO bounce. I don't know if I have to call this a volume or attack problem, the thing is that I always am able to play in different dynamic levels on my piano with every other library but not with GPO. There must be a setting in side GPO itself, or maybe I am loading the library in a wrong way?

    Jam pack full strings
    GPO full strings


    I hope someone can help me here, because this is very frustrating.
    André
    Andre --

    I want to help you locate precisely where this problem is occurring, but we need more detailed information from you about what is happening in Logic.

    Please load something that is supposed to be playing through the GPO library and switch to Logic's Event List view and tell me what you see there for the velocity data. There should be a list of velocity numbers for every note in the piece. What I'm looking for is whether all of the velocity numbers are identical or are they varied from one note to the next?

    EDIT: Here is what I am asking you to do, please, if you don't mind.

    1. Open Logic
    2. Load GPO4 and activate a track for recording
    3. Assign any instrument you like to the track
    4. Record a short passage, and hit some keys VERY hard and other keys VERY soft
    5. Open the Event List view and examine the velocity numbers there

    Are the numbers all the same, or do they vary?

    Thank you,

    Arvid
    Arvid Hand
    Theory-Comp./Piano
    ASCAP

  10. #10

    Re: Can't get velocity to work...

    Arvid thats a great idea

    That would at least, by process of elimination rule out the velocity if its working properly.

    Andre
    Hmmm... no mod wheel on the keyboard, Have you tried to automate the mod wheel (cc1) within Logic and see if it made any difference at all?

    Out of curiosity, What keyboard are you using?

    When I record in protools with GPO, I found it best to record my tracks with the mod wheel setting on the keyboard at max. Then after i recorded it I go back and automate the mod wheel to the desired settings as the music plays. Then I can ultimately control the whole dynamics of that track with the mixer slider for that track in protools. I did notice that the Aria mixer sliders and pan pots are linked with the protools sliders and pots.

    I hope this can shed some light or at least give you and idea on how to approach it on the Logic end. Im sorry that i dont know anything about logic. But I will try and help you figure this out.

    Erik

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