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Topic: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

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  1. #1

    Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    I'm not sure if this is a JABB3 problem or a Cakewalk problem but here goes.

    Just got JABB3 and love it, but I've run into an interesting problem. I'm doing an arrangement of an old 40s number (Sentimental Journey) in Sonar 8.5, and I'm using 3 trumpet parts: Trumpet 1 KS, Trumpet 2 KS, and Trumpet 3 KS respectively. I'm leaving the Auto-legato on as each line is monophonic. The song is written in 6/8 Concert C, and my B-flat trumpets are written in D. It works fine until I hit the chorus. Every time the trumpets go from the cord G-sharp, B, E-flat to G-sharp, B, E-natural, the 2 bottom notes drop out on the second cord. The first cord is a quarter note and the second cord is a whole note that holds over into the next measure. That same timing pattern is repeated several times with different notes in the chorus with no dropout. But every time I hit that cord combination, dropout.

    The strange thing is that if I turn off the auto-legato, it plays fine, so I guess I can just toggle off cc102 for that cord, but I sure would like to know why that is happening.

  2. #2
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    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    Are you using separate tracks for each instrument. It almost sounds like the release of the first note is hanging over the attack of the next note. What happens if you shorten the length of the notes?

    Jim

  3. #3

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    Okay, that's a really good question Jim. But yes, each instrument has a separate track and a separate channel.

    As I mentioned, I can get it to work correctly by switching off the auto-legato for that one particular cord (supporting the overlap theory), and your suggestion of shortening the notes works as well. I shorten the initial quarter-note cord by 5 ticks (I have quarter-notes set to 240 ticks), so the quarter note cord is 235 ticks followed by a whole-note cord. That does the trick for the quarter-note/whole-note combination, and I like that solution better than turning cc102 on and off for just that cord.

    But my question still remains. I have the exact same rhythm pattern going from a C-sharp, F-natural, G-sharp quarter-note cord to a D, F-sharp, A whole-note cord and with no note trimming and it plays fine. Similarly, I do the same thing with an F-sharp, A-sharp, C-sharp quarter-note cord going to a G, B, D whole note cord, and without trimming it plays fine.

    I guess I should be happy if I can get it to work right, but I must be coming down with OCD in my old age!

  4. #4

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    I've had that happen also in Sonar when the notes are "too" well aligned. And when I was pushing the envelope on RAM and turned on an additional processing tool, which auto-legato is. When the notes are too precisely aligned, I just shift some of them to the right or the left a few ticks at random and that usually fixes any dropout problem and gives the MIDI data a more "human" touch.
    Arvid Hand
    Theory-Comp./Piano
    ASCAP

  5. #5

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    Yeah, I usually do some randome shifting too, but it is one of the last things I do and this is the first time I have used JABB3. Just thought it strange and wanted to know if something was wrong, but it gave me some ideas of how to do things differently. The Garritan instruments are really nice, but they act a little differently than I am used to in using Sonar. Thanks all for the comments!

  6. #6

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    I've had JABB for about 2 months now. I love it too, but I can't see the significance of three different trumpets (or saxes or whatever). IMHO the first one has the best intonation throughout the entire range. The other two sound a bit weak in the lower register. Did you try just using the same trumpet on all three parts?
    JB

  7. #7
    Senior Member Frank D's Avatar
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    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    Hi JB,

    I would never use the same instance of a sample for multiple 'players' ... that would be the complete opposite of how these libraries are designed and your results will be predictably poor and very unrealistic. At best, unisons will sound chorus-y, and concerted voicings will sound like a cheesey organ.

    Have you tried scoring a brief excersise using, say, trumpet 1, trumpet 2, trumpet 3, etc.? The very fact you noticed less than perfect intonation on some of the instruments is exactly why it will sound correct if you play in the parts individualy and use lots of CC1 ... real cats don't all blow the same way! Their timing, intonation, sense of dynamics, vibrato, etc., will all be different from one another.

    I can't help out on the original question, but I can vouch for using the various versions of an instrument and never using multiple versions of the same one.

    Good luck,

    Frank

  8. #8

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank D View Post
    Hi JB,

    I would never use the same instance of a sample for multiple 'players' ... that would be the complete opposite of how these libraries are designed and your results will be predictably poor and very unrealistic. At best, unisons will sound chorus-y, and concerted voicings will sound like a cheesey organ.

    Have you tried scoring a brief excersise using, say, trumpet 1, trumpet 2, trumpet 3, etc.? The very fact you noticed less than perfect intonation on some of the instruments is exactly why it will sound correct if you play in the parts individualy and use lots of CC1 ... real cats don't all blow the same way! Their timing, intonation, sense of dynamics, vibrato, etc., will all be different from one another.

    I can't help out on the original question, but I can vouch for using the various versions of an instrument and never using multiple versions of the same one.

    Good luck,

    Frank
    You may be right. I haven't yet used the same instrument in a "layered" arrangement like that. My first and only project (so far) is "Yes You Are" and that used tenor & bari sax and trumpet. I was thinking the "different players play different ways" theory and it does make sense.
    JB

  9. #9

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    I agree, Frank. The different instances of the instruments really give that "section" feel to things, rather than making it sound like 1 loud single instrument. In fact, I sometimes put all 3 trumpet parts together on a fourth track and use it as backup with one of the Trumpet KS Comb instruments. This thickens it up further to get the feel of a large trumpet section. GPO uses an Overlay voice for that. Of course you have to turn off auto-legato because of the polyphony.

    Having said that, though, I did experiment in one song with GPO before I got JABB using the same trumpet voice on 2 different tracks and used a lot of cc22 and cc23 which didn't sound too bad.

  10. #10

    Re: Trumpet voice dropout in JABB3

    Quote Originally Posted by mkuehlok2 View Post
    I agree, Frank. The different instances of the instruments really give that "section" feel to things, rather than making it sound like 1 loud single instrument. In fact, I sometimes put all 3 trumpet parts together on a fourth track and use it as backup with one of the Trumpet KS Comb instruments. This thickens it up further to get the feel of a large trumpet section. GPO uses an Overlay voice for that. Of course you have to turn off auto-legato because of the polyphony.

    Having said that, though, I did experiment in one song with GPO before I got JABB using the same trumpet voice on 2 different tracks and used a lot of cc22 and cc23 which didn't sound too bad.
    Yeah. The more I think of that the more it make perfect sense.
    Thanks for waking me up!
    JB

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