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Topic: It's all In milliseconds

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  1. #1

    It's all In milliseconds

    Hi everyone!

    i've seen people complaining about not getting there tracks,specially the drums to groove like the big names do...well sumtimes we focus on the bigger picture,leaving behind the minor details..here is an example,

    so u've heard this new track and even though the beat is simple but there's sumthin to it that you can't replicate...you cant make it to groove.well you dnt need a multimillion dollar setup to do it..first thing first

    try programing a simple beat.
    now seperate every element to a new midi track
    insert a quantizer into each midi track inserts
    it'll be on 16th notes by default
    now lets start wid da kick
    in 16th note config,even if u turn the swing to max,nuthing happens,try changing it to 8th notes,and 4th notes unless the kick sounds way off

    now reduce the swing value to about 1 or maybe 3 max
    ur kick drum has a lil swing now but you cant really feel it unless every element goes through the the same process.
    after your done with it,try locating the delay offset option on each channel and try delaying everything a lil bit farther but dnt touch the kick drum.give positive values to snare or clap wutever ur using and hihats too and here you have a gud sounding drum groove

    this info was'nt intended for senior musicians out here so no disrespect to anyone...jus sharing wut i've learned the hard way..hope it helps

  2. #2

    Re: It's all In milliseconds

    i get the best results if i determine to be one element to be the groove master and slave everything else to that except maybe the melody.
    In my music i mostly rely on drumloops from RMX or premade midibeats from Toontrack for the rhythmic foundation.
    These have been played by pro drummers that have a superdeep pocket.
    I borrow their timing to generate quantization templates that i apply to the bass and keyboardparts.
    Makes for a supertight backingtrack.
    I find that i can now freely play my solos and melodies with little or no quantization and get a pretty organic sounding overall feel.

  3. #3

    Smile Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler View Post
    i get the best results if i determine to be one element to be the groove master and slave everything else to that except maybe the melody.
    In my music i mostly rely on drumloops from RMX or premade midibeats from Toontrack for the rhythmic foundation.
    These have been played by pro drummers that have a superdeep pocket.
    I borrow their timing to generate quantization templates that i apply to the bass and keyboardparts.
    Makes for a supertight backingtrack.
    I find that i can now freely play my solos and melodies with little or no quantization and get a pretty organic sounding overall feel.

    ur absolutely right hans!it is a brilliant way of working,by extracting groove from the audio sample..well i tried extracting groove several times but i was having difficulties making everything to sit together well.i mean on sum tracks it did wonders but on others it jus messed them up,so my question is,which kind of audio samples do you prefer using for groove extraction,the simple ones with jus the bd and snare or complete drum samples,and do you adjust the hitpoints according to ur liking before you extract groove out of it..

    thank u soo much for sharing ur knowledge with us

  4. #4

    Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Great thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler View Post
    I borrow their timing to generate quantization templates....

    What kind of DAW are you using, Hans? I was creating groove templates from midi and audio in Cubase but I never managed to quantize my midi notes to follow the timing (i.e. hard quantize (100%) wouldn't move the midi notes at all. they would all remain in the same position). If you have any experience with Cubase I just thought you might have an idea about where I went wrong?

  5. #5

    Smile Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirly View Post
    Great thread!




    What kind of DAW are you using, Hans? I was creating groove templates from midi and audio in Cubase but I never managed to quantize my midi notes to follow the timing (i.e. hard quantize (100%) wouldn't move the midi notes at all. they would all remain in the same position). If you have any experience with Cubase I just thought you might have an idea about where I went wrong?

    hi whirly!
    which version of cubase are you using?i'm currently using cubase 5 and i can certainly tell you how to extract groove and apply it to your midi parts.assuming that ur also using version 5.

    take a drum loop which is fairly simple
    open it in sample editor
    make sure hitpoint tab is lit
    use the sensitivity slider to adjust the amount of hitpoints
    try sticking to 8th or quarter notes for now
    once you have your hitponts sorted
    hit the make groove button on the left side of sample editor
    if everything went right!u should see the name of your loop being displayed in the quantization drop down box on the main page's upper right hand corner
    now wytever you record in midi,u can use it as your quantization grid

    hope this helps
    if you have any q's regarding cubase.feel free to ask.

  6. #6

    Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Anyone who wants good groove and beats must have a good sence of time keeping, just because we have good drum programs or drum machines does not mean we cant use the program and play in real time with the aid of a metro.

    you can break your songs or tracks up into parts and play your beats in real time with out the use of quantize.

    this will also give you swing and different moods or feel in different parts of your track.



    Keep on programming

    novaburst





    Gigabyte EP43UD3L. Core2Duo3gighz6MBcatch.ram8gighz DDR21066hz.seagate1500TBHDD Soundcard:M-AUDIO Fasttrack Pro USB. OS windows764bit.Host Cubase5update 5.1.1. Wavelabstudio 6. Hypersonic with modules. Omnisphere. VST sound collection. HALion Sonic VST Workstation upgrade.
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  7. #7

    Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Quote Originally Posted by noizelab View Post
    hope this helps
    if you have any q's regarding cubase.feel free to ask.
    Thanks noizelab!
    No further questions! Once I started playing with the Groove Quantize settings in the Quantize Setup menu I got it going. Guess I overlooked this last time.

  8. #8

    Re: It's all In milliseconds

    I use the groove template function in Logic.
    The master grooves are mostly coming from RMX or Superior so they are already in the MIDIformat-maybe that is the reason why the groove function works better than on regular audio.
    One trick that i learned is to fill any gaps in those groovetemplates with additional notes that resemble the feel of the rest of the loops to guarantee a steady amount of 16th notes at every possible location in the template.
    If there are to many blank spots (which can easily be the case depending on the used template) the quantized tracks will change their phrasing too much.

  9. #9

    Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hans Scheffler View Post
    I use the groove template function in Logic.
    The master grooves are mostly coming from RMX or Superior so they are already in the MIDIformat-maybe that is the reason why the groove function works better than on regular audio.
    One trick that i learned is to fill any gaps in those groovetemplates with additional notes that resemble the feel of the rest of the loops to guarantee a steady amount of 16th notes at every possible location in the template.
    If there are to many blank spots (which can easily be the case depending on the used template) the quantized tracks will change their phrasing too much.

    My initial problem was solved, but hey, here you come up with a pretty good answer for a question which I haven't yet articulated - thanks a lot

  10. #10

    Smile Re: It's all In milliseconds

    Quote Originally Posted by Whirly View Post
    Thanks noizelab!
    No further questions! Once I started playing with the Groove Quantize settings in the Quantize Setup menu I got it going. Guess I overlooked this last time.
    i'm glad u figured it out .please share any knowledge, u think might help others.cheers

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