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Topic: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

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  1. #1

    What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    OK, I am new to this forum. I am here for the same reason that most people probably are. These guys bought Giga, and, now, 2 and some odd years later, haven't done a f---ing thing with it! This sampler DOMINATED the music production scene for almost a decade. I simply do not believe that there is no use for it anymore. Especially since EVERY studio I have been in over the past couple of years still has stacks of old PC's, just in case someone finds a way to revive this platform. So far, no one has come close. The best recommended alternative that I came across was G Player, and while I have a tremendous amount of respect for the gentleman working on the plug in, it sounds like crap, it's glitchy, and it is extremely limited. So, as of now, there is simply no adequate substitute. I decided to offer the folks at Garritan a solution, because it seems they have run out of ideas.
    First, I will come out and say it for everyone here. Garritan samples are nothing short of WORTHLESS! A buddy of mine got a copy for FREE, and after hearing one note of a solo string instrument, he deleted it. It wasn't even worth the hard drive space it occupied! They still make reason refills, for crying out loud. WHO DOES THAT!?!?
    Now that I got that out of the way, some praise is due. They did a really smart thing. They bought Giga. I don't know how they got it, but they somehow managed to add something HUGE to their otherwise worthless product line. And we all know the rest of the story because there is no "rest of the story". They have done absolutely nothing with it. Every month that passes, every new KONTAKT, PLAY, and Vienna format library that gets released, their potential to capitalize on the Giga consumer base grows smaller and smaller.
    My proposal is VERY simple (and has probably been discussed on this forum already...several times). Take Giga, update the interface a bit, update the code for current processing/bit archetecture, etc. Then, redesign the Audio/MIDI protocol to be network based like Vienna Ensemble Pro, so that it receives MIDI, Beat Clock, Word Clock, and sends audio via Ethernet. You add AU, VST, and RTAS to a program like that, and you are making those Krauts at VSL sweat bullets. You know why? Because there is still an ENORMOUS market for GIGA sampler. Giga is a sleeping giant. If Garritan would get their sh-t together and develop something, people would buy it! Hell, if they just released a v5 updated for new OS and 64 bit support, and a higher RAM usage it would sell. Let alone the features I mentioned above.
    So, there you go. My rant finally lands somewhere. I am absolutely puzzled as to why they are still dicking around with their casio, tinny sounding samples, when they real cash cow is sitting around untouched! They should be developing/improving Giga and use that extra income to improve their atrocious sample library, not just sitting around wondering how they can sell more copies of said atrocious sample library based off of Giga's popularity. If they are too stupid to do something with it, they should sell it to Native or something, so that people can use their samples again. I mean, honestly... or get off the pot!

    I am including the link to support at Garritan. Email your thoughts and ideas to these poor bastards. They must really be struggling if they can't figure out a profitable use for something that was considered industry standard RIGHT UP UNTIL THE DAY THEY BOUGHT IT!

    Nick

    support@garritan.com

  2. #2

    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    It may feel good to write a rant, but flaming a company is probably counterproductive if you want them to do something.
    In any event, Garritan has been porting parts of giga into their own products. That's probably not what you wanted to happen, but it's what was listed to happen in the FAQ about the purchase.

  3. #3
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    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    The amount of Giga users was actually quite small when compared to the sale of most DAW software. There are probably 10 times the amount of Garritan Personal Orchestra users than there were Giga users.

    There has to be a reason that Tascam shut down the Giga team. It probably wasn't making any money plus Giga 4 was loaded with bugs when it was released.

    My proposal is VERY simple (and has probably been discussed on this forum already...several times). Take Giga, update the interface a bit, update the code for current processing/bit archetecture, etc. Then, redesign the Audio/MIDI protocol to be network based like Vienna Ensemble Pro, so that it receives MIDI, Beat Clock, Word Clock, and sends audio via Ethernet. You add AU, VST, and RTAS to a program like that, and you are making those Krauts at VSL sweat bullets.
    If it was that simple, then the original Giga team would have done the above.

    Jim

  4. #4

    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    Well, with sweet talk like that who wouldn't want to work hard to fulfill your every dream? It was apparently not sufficient to inquire about the status of Giga and make suggestions, it was also necessary to trash every product we make. Good move - reverse psychology, no doubt! And all of this based on a friend who had played one note of one instrument in one library - why, after such a comprehensive review of instruments and features who could blame him for his conclusion? Mighty persuasive! Even if rather contrary to the many awards, positive industry reviews, testimonials, success of the products, and on and on. But what does that matter?

    Now, as to the Giga assets, what we do with them will depend on many things, most of them outlined in our FAQ here: http://www.gigastudio.com/faq.html If you wish to make calm, rational suggestions you can contact us privately at Garritan.com. One point should be understood: Tascam pulled the plug on Giga long before Garritan acquired the assets. We are not, and never have been, under any obligation to revive the platform. Any use of the assets is at our discretion. Frankly, if you are an example of a potential Giga customer then I would be disinclined to pursue it.

    Tom Hopkins
    Executive Vice President/Director of Programming, Garritan Corp.

  5. #5

    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    Wow, hate mail. Great. Allow me to preface my responses with this. This post was about more than the paragraph of criticism everyone keeps referencing. There was actually a really valuable suggestion in this post that no one has grasped. It's no wonder your products raise about as much intrigue as a wet fart. My response is the following, and that will be the end of it...for everyone's sake.

    Jeff
    : No, that is definitely NOT what I want them to do. Read the above critique of their samples if you require clarification.


    Haydn: "If it was that simple, then the original giga team would have done the above".

    Fair enough. But if it were so bloody difficult, the Vienna team would not have done it YEARS AGO.

    Tom: Wow, Executive Vice President AND Director of Programming for Garritan!?!?! I feel like I have been blessed with the presence of a reality TV star, or a minor league baseball player. Thank you for commenting on my little rant. I have used your products myself. Consider the statements above my comprehensive review of your products, based off of extensive personal research. I just thought the story about my friend deleting it was a better demonstration of my point.
    Now I'm sure your opinion is 100% impartial (sacrasm), and I am VERY excited to hear that there are people that endorse your product (more sarcasm). The fact remains that if you were forced to go toe to toe with the Project Sam's and the East Wests, and ILIO's of this world...you would be destroyed. We all know it. Your samples simply cannot compete.
    As for me being an "example of a potential giga customer" ...come on Tom. You're better than that, right? Are you seriously going to try to use THIS as your excuse as to why your team can't find their from a hole in the ground? Really?
    As for you being disinclined to pursue it...No sh-t. You are Executive Vice President and Director of Programming and you spend your mornings writing detailed responses to critics of your products on some internet forum. Business must be booming. Thanks for squeezing me in Tom. Consider my proposal. I want 10%.

  6. #6

    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    Quote Originally Posted by delaplanemusic View Post
    Wow, hate mail. Great.
    Are you referring to your original post?
    Tom: Wow, Executive Vice President AND Director of Programming for Garritan!?!?! I feel like I have been blessed with the presence of a reality TV star, or a minor league baseball player.
    You underestimate me. I'm more like a reality TV Star, minor league baseball player, and professional Kleenex tester all in one! Oh, wait a minute, I left out chocolate taster - that's my greatest source of pride.
    I have used your products myself. Consider the statements above my comprehensive review of your products, based off of extensive personal research.
    That's better. At least this time you made it clear that you actually had reasonable personal experience with our products and expressed an opinion on that basis. Congratulations!
    Now I'm sure your opinion is 100% impartial (sacrasm), and I am VERY excited to hear that there are people that endorse your product (more sarcasm).
    Your sarcasm (or is that "sacrasm?") is appropriate here because, as I'm sure everyone knows, your
    opinion trumps everyone else's. Point taken.
    The fact remains that if you were forced to go toe to toe with the Project Sam's and the East Wests, and ILIO's of this world...you would be destroyed. We all know it. Your samples simply cannot compete.
    Hmmm, I'm puzzled. We *seem* to be doing fine in the competitive world of sampling and have been doing fine for quite a long while. The companies you have mentioned are good companies who make good products and have been around for most of that time. So, as near as I can tell, we have been competing with them all along. We don't feel "destroyed." I suspect that this comes as a great source of irritation to you but the truth is: We offer a worthy product, at a very fair price, and we have been rewarded for that financially and with accolades during our entire existence. Our users appear to be generally happy and we are generally happy to make them generally happy. If our approach is not your cup of tea, then take that knowledge to our competitors and vote with your dollars by buying their products. Then you too will be generally happy!
    As for me being an "example of a potential giga customer" ...come on Tom. You're better than that, right? Are you seriously going to try to use THIS as your excuse as to why your team can't find their from a hole in the ground? Really?
    Now, I've got to call you on this one, you're way off base here - just last week our team was able to find their (we weren't sure exactly what we were looking for and apparently neither were you) from a hole in the ground. Upon discovering (it) we partied well into the night! P.S. Naw, I'm not better than that - I use sarcasm too.
    As for you being disinclined to pursue it...No sh-t. You are Executive Vice President and Director of Programming and you spend your mornings writing detailed responses to critics of your products on some internet forum. Business must be booming. Thanks for squeezing me in Tom.
    So, you're saying you didn't really want someone (of some authority within the company) to pay any attention to your post? You actually didn't believe that your post was worthy of my taking some of my (precious) morning to respond - that it was, in your opinion, a waste of my valuable time - time better spent elsewhere? OK, I'll accept your judgment on this and will try to act accordingly in the future (but no guarantees.) Sarcasm, meet Sarcasm.
    Consider my proposal.
    Despite your lack of presentation skills we will actually consider your proposal because we always consider suggestions when they are made but, not to overstate the obvious, we naturally tend to pay more attention (and not write someone off as a troll or crackpot) when the suggestion is made both politely and with respect. Your initial post had neither. My response comes under the heading of "you reap what you sow."
    I want 10%.
    Only 10%? I would have pegged you for a 51 percenter.

    Tom Hopkins
    Executive Vice President/Director of Programming/Reality TV Star/Minor League Baseball
    player/Kleenex Tester/Chocolate taster/Troll Response Team Captain

  7. #7

    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    Well I, for one, was incredibly glad to see the back of Giga. It never did work. Full of bugs, hated about half the soundcards on the market, caused more BSODs than you could shake a stick at, had awful support, the crappiest most unbending registration procedure, and fell about a mile behind Kontakt. I persevered for a long time, for the libraries that seemed essential, and were Giga only, but I'd given up on it a long time before they pulled the plug.

    As for Garritan products, I think, if we're totally honest, we all know that the budget range products don't quite have the realism of VSL. But then VSL's orchestra costs about a trillion dollars, and getting that realism takes about a thousand times more work, as well as a small network of machines. In terms of bang-for-buck Garritan outplays everything. And when Garritan goes high-end, their products are invariably groundbreaking in terms of realism.

    If Garritan products can benefit from Giga technology then great. But would anyone want to see Giga simply resurrected? I doubt it.
    David

  8. #8
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    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    Haydn: "If it was that simple, then the original giga team would have done the above".

    Fair enough. But if it were so bloody difficult, the Vienna team would not have done it YEARS AGO.
    Vienna team didn't do it! You have it all wrong. They did not update GIGA at all but developed their own product from the ground up. Garritan also did the same thing as Vienna by creating the ARIA player.

    Giga's days were numbered way before it went under with the delay of Giga 3. That's why Garritan came out with the Garritan Personal Orchestra on Kontakt. To this day Kontakt is still sold and used widely by many developers.

    Jim

  9. #9

    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    To be fair, Tascam tanked GS pretty much from the word go, and while we'll never know why, the sequence of events suggests that GS was doomed.

    BUT, to the question about wanting GS resurrected, I may be in the minority, but I'd be happy to have it back. I still have libraries that work in GS and nowhere else. That alone is reason enough to wish for SOME solution. I'm feeling optimistic about G-Player, but it isn't there yet.

    I have no hope whatsoever that Garritan can or will do much with GS the program, though I am sure there are lots of bits that will eventually resurface in Garritan products, and that's ok with me.

    An observation - I used a Frontier Design Dakota (actually started with the WaveCenter) and never had a problem with the GSIF drivers. I still use a Dakota/Montana as my sound card. GS3 running under WinXP worked well for me, it's a pain to install, there are restrictions about the sequence of installation, but once you get it running it works. Licensing is another topic!

    Another observation - Garritan's original GOS product was as good as it got, still is an amazing library if you can get GS working! For whatever reasons (and clearly they were well thought out) Gary decided to head to the shallow end of the pool, and the current product line is beyond remarkable for the price. It is also a remarkable tool for learning about arranging and orchestration, and working with MIDI.

    To compare GPO or JABB with libraries costing many times more is a poor strategy. If you can't hear the difference between, e.g. GPO strings and LASS well, you probably shouldn't buy LASS. If you can hear the difference I'm willing to bet you can still do great things with GPO. You can do better things with LASS<G>, but that's not the point.

    I think if you can get GS working you can get about 95% of the way to LASS with GOS - there are some scripting tricks in Kontakt that were not implemented in GS. But the sound of GOS remains as good as it was when it came out.

    Anyway, the OP was way out of line, and that's too bad because it does nothing for the cause! And yes, I still wish GS was brought back in some working form.
    Bill Thompson
    Audio Enterprise
    KB3KJF

  10. #10
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    Re: What the hell are they DOING with Giga????

    Quote Originally Posted by delaplanemusic View Post
    OK, I am new to this forum. I am here for the same reason that most people probably are. These guys bought Giga, and, now, 2 and some odd years later, haven't done a f---ing thing with it! This sampler DOMINATED the music production scene for almost a decade. I simply do not believe that there is no use for it anymore. Especially since EVERY studio I have been in over the past couple of years still has stacks of old PC's, just in case someone finds a way to revive this platform. So far, no one has come close. The best recommended alternative that I came across was G Player, and while I have a tremendous amount of respect for the gentleman working on the plug in, it sounds like crap, it's glitchy, and it is extremely limited. So, as of now, there is simply no adequate substitute. I decided to offer the folks at Garritan a solution, because it seems they have run out of ideas.
    First, I will come out and say it for everyone here. Garritan samples are nothing short of WORTHLESS! A buddy of mine got a copy for FREE, and after hearing one note of a solo string instrument, he deleted it. It wasn't even worth the hard drive space it occupied! They still make reason refills, for crying out loud. WHO DOES THAT!?!?
    Now that I got that out of the way, some praise is due. They did a really smart thing. They bought Giga. I don't know how they got it, but they somehow managed to add something HUGE to their otherwise worthless product line. And we all know the rest of the story because there is no "rest of the story". They have done absolutely nothing with it. Every month that passes, every new KONTAKT, PLAY, and Vienna format library that gets released, their potential to capitalize on the Giga consumer base grows smaller and smaller.
    My proposal is VERY simple (and has probably been discussed on this forum already...several times). Take Giga, update the interface a bit, update the code for current processing/bit archetecture, etc. Then, redesign the Audio/MIDI protocol to be network based like Vienna Ensemble Pro, so that it receives MIDI, Beat Clock, Word Clock, and sends audio via Ethernet. You add AU, VST, and RTAS to a program like that, and you are making those Krauts at VSL sweat bullets. You know why? Because there is still an ENORMOUS market for GIGA sampler. Giga is a sleeping giant. If Garritan would get their sh-t together and develop something, people would buy it! Hell, if they just released a v5 updated for new OS and 64 bit support, and a higher RAM usage it would sell. Let alone the features I mentioned above.
    So, there you go. My rant finally lands somewhere. I am absolutely puzzled as to why they are still dicking around with their casio, tinny sounding samples, when they real cash cow is sitting around untouched! They should be developing/improving Giga and use that extra income to improve their atrocious sample library, not just sitting around wondering how they can sell more copies of said atrocious sample library based off of Giga's popularity. If they are too stupid to do something with it, they should sell it to Native or something, so that people can use their samples again. I mean, honestly... or get off the pot!

    I am including the link to support at Garritan. Email your thoughts and ideas to these poor bastards. They must really be struggling if they can't figure out a profitable use for something that was considered industry standard RIGHT UP UNTIL THE DAY THEY BOUGHT IT!

    Nick

    support@garritan.com
    Get a life!

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