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Topic: Unwanted breath noises in GPO flutes

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  1. #1
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    Extraneous breath noises in GPO flutes

    I'm finding that, in some circumstances, the breath noises that are audible in the flute section's player instruments can be very intrusive. I've been using EQ, with some success, to minimise this. I was wondering if any forum members have found other ways of dealing with this problem.

    Steve S.
    Last edited by ssilverm; 03-16-2011 at 08:04 PM. Reason: More accurate description

  2. #2

    Re: Unwanted breath noises in GPO flutes

    I have used every flute in GPO for years and there is no exagerated or un-natural sounding breathy sounds in any of them in my opinion.

    I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't find any issues like that with them.
    Dan

  3. #3
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    Re: Unwanted breath noises in GPO flutes

    Quote Originally Posted by DPDAN View Post
    I have used every flute in GPO for years and there is no exagerated or un-natural sounding breathy sounds in any of them in my opinion.
    It's really prominent in the middle register of the three player instruments. Not in the solo instruments though. I'll see if I can upload an example.

    Steve S.

  4. #4
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    Re: Unwanted breath noises in GPO flutes

    Actually, I probably haven't expressed myself particualrly clearly. What I'm referring to is the noise of breath against the mouthpiece. I suspect this is a result of very close miking. Anyway, I've uploaded an example here:

    https://www.yousendit.com/download/e...TWNWRDljR0E9PQ

    It's a short phrase repeated twice. The first time, the breath noise is clearly audible. The second, it's been greatly reduced with EQ. FIddly and time-consuming though.

    Steve S.

  5. #5

    Re: Unwanted breath noises in GPO flutes

    Quote Originally Posted by ssilverm View Post
    Actually, I probably haven't expressed myself particualrly clearly. What I'm referring to is the noise of breath against the mouthpiece. I suspect this is a result of very close miking. Anyway, I've uploaded an example here:

    https://www.yousendit.com/download/e...TWNWRDljR0E9PQ

    It's a short phrase repeated twice. The first time, the breath noise is clearly audible. The second, it's been greatly reduced with EQ. FIddly and time-consuming though.

    Steve S.
    The GPO instrument samples are closely miked, but IMHO this has never been a problem, because it makes them most amenable to applying reverb. Yes, the section flutes are on the "breathy" side, but put them in a nice reverb environment, and I think their breathiness adds a nice quality to the sound. In any case, this would only be noticeable in exposed passages, so if you still want to use EQ to reduce the breathiness, you may not need to do this as much as you might think.

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

  6. #6

    Re: Extraneous breath noises in GPO flutes

    Quote Originally Posted by ssilverm View Post
    I'm finding that, in some circumstances, the breath noises that are audible in the flute section's player instruments can be very intrusive. I've been using EQ, with some success, to minimise this. I was wondering if any forum members have found other ways of dealing with this problem.

    Steve S.
    Hi, Steve - The responses you've gotten may sound defensive to you, but I think these members are all expressing what they really think - that the breath on the flute samples (and other Garritan winds) isn't a problem. Like them I've never found it an issue.

    The samples you're hearing the most breath on are the players - You do understand those aren't intended to be heard alone? All the solo instruments, in all sections of the Garritan orchestra, are larger, more complex samples which hold up to the spotlight. The player instruments are shorter samples, more tightly looped, more dull sounding - they're perfect for filling out ensembles.

    Without the breath in the samples, a subtle degree of realism would be missing in recordings using them. I think you'll find that once you've built an ensemble for orchestrating a piece, the breath won't be heard any more than in a real performance situation - which is to say, breath noise is always there because it's a characteristic of instruments played by human musicians.

    Use the solo instruments for the spotlight - the players for filling groups out. Things will sound better for you, I am sure.

    Randy

  7. #7
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    Re: Extraneous breath noises in GPO flutes

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    You do understand those aren't intended to be heard alone? All the solo instruments, in all sections of the Garritan orchestra, are larger, more complex samples which hold up to the spotlight. The player instruments are shorter samples, more tightly looped, more dull sounding - they're perfect for filling out ensembles.

    Use the solo instruments for the spotlight - the players for filling groups out. Things will sound better for you, I am sure.
    That's exactly how I use all the instruments, where applicable, Randy. Nevertheless, even in ensembles, I still find that the breath noises occasionally cut through the mix in a way that isn't entirely natural-sounding. Not a huge problem as I can equalise it out where necessary, but I was just curious as to what other users thought of it.

    Steve S.

  8. #8

    Re: Extraneous breath noises in GPO flutes

    Quote Originally Posted by ssilverm View Post
    That's exactly how I use all the instruments, where applicable, Randy. Nevertheless, even in ensembles, I still find that the breath noises occasionally cut through the mix in a way that isn't entirely natural-sounding. Not a huge problem as I can equalise it out where necessary, but I was just curious as to what other users thought of it.

    Steve S.
    Hi, Steve - I knew I was risking passing on info you already knew, but thought I should pass it on in case it was needed. I've seen people using the "player" instruments as lead instruments before, and wondering why their results aren't as good as they wanted, so I wanted to make sure you understood that's not a good use of the player instruments which are more bland, and perhaps a bit more harsh.

    It's an unusual problem, I'd even say unique, since I've been active on this Forum for five years now, and don't remember anyone else ever needing to do special EQ for the flutes. But different issues come up with different users, since we're all unique. I will add that Dpdan and I could be considered "GPO power users," and the breath noise hasn't ever been a problem for us, causing no unnatural results - the opposite actually. And Steve Johnson's on his way to becoming a power user, having just won the top prize in the Garritan tutorial contest. Just pointing out that we're all surprised at what's coming up as an issue for you.

    So, no other suggestions to make, except that I hope you get some nice music produced soon with GPO!

    Randy

  9. #9
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    Re: Unwanted breath noises in GPO flutes

    The player instruments are subsets of the solo instruments. The solo instruments are split up into 3 players instruments by using every third sample. So they are sampled in minor thirds versus the chromatically sampled solo instruments. This can cause some artifacts when stretching notes up and down so they don't normally sound as good.

    Jim

  10. #10

    Re: Extraneous breath noises in GPO flutes

    Quote Originally Posted by rbowser- View Post
    And Steve Johnson's on his way to becoming a power user, having just won the top prize in the Garritan tutorial contest.
    Randy, thanks for the compliment! I really hadn't thought of myself as becoming a GPO power user, but I guess I am on that road. Good stuff -- I really enjoy digging deep to discover the wonderful capabilities in GPO's programming, and I'm having a blast with GPO4. Speaking of...

    Steve S., I forgot to mention that you can actually apply EQ directly to instrument patches in ARIA. After you load your instruments in ARIA, click on the Controls tab and you'll see the EQ panel on the left. To use EQ, just click on an instrument slot, click on the on/off button to activate it, then make your EQ settings. I experimented with the section flutes, and I was able to reduce the breathiness with a frequency setting of 2509 Hz and a setting of -6 dB on the high knob (I left the low and gain knobs at 0 dB). You can play around with those settings to suit your preference. If you use EQ in the way I'm suggesting, I have two cautions:

    1. When you want to use EQ on an instrument patch, you'll need to determine the initial settings by listening to the instrument in solo mode. Then when you put that instrument in the context of a composition, you may need to adjust those settings based on how it sounds with other instruments playing. If you can successfully use EQ on the "ground level" in ARIA, this will save you a lot of work.

    2. Since ARIA's EQ affects the instrument patch itself, it's either on or off. If applying EQ to an instrument in ARIA works well in some places, but causes problems in others, you'll be better off using your DAW's EQ in selected passages during the audio mix process.

    By the way, ARIA's EQ is assigned per instrument slot, so settings for one patch have no effect on the others you have loaded. For example, if you had section flute players loaded into two slots, you'd have to activate EQ for both, then apply your settings.

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

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