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Topic: Scherzo intro for orchestra

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  1. #1

    Scherzo intro for orchestra

    I am working on a new piee for orchestra, a scherzo. Here is the intro of this movement:

    https://www.box.net/shared/i001om7t7m

    I am trying to get a good mix, I think it's pretty balanced by now, but others with fresh ears can maybe give me some good advice.

    André
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  2. #2

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    André,

    Wow! very impressive so far...

    As for the recording, the only thing I would comment on would be bringing the piano up more in the mix and watching some of the "muddy" lower registers whether it be strings or brass.

    Can't wait to hear more - your off to a great start!

    M
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  3. #3

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael A. Wiktor View Post
    André,

    Wow! very impressive so far...

    As for the recording, the only thing I would comment on would be bringing the piano up more in the mix and watching some of the "muddy" lower registers whether it be strings or brass.

    Can't wait to hear more - your off to a great start!

    M
    I already recorded the whole piece, it's about 10 minutes in lenght. I am still doubting about the rol of the piano, because I don't want to make a piano and orchestra piece out of it, it is a piece for orchestra that also has a piano. THe piano doesn't have any real melodic parts, everything is in the orchestra. It does get a little muddy, yes, I have to find a way to keep it clear on those moments.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  4. #4

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    André,

    Sounds good.

    I also like to use the piano as an added instrument to the orchestra rather than bringing it out as a concerto.

    Maybe you could orchestrate the piano lines to the winds?

    M
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  5. #5

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael A. Wiktor View Post
    André,

    Sounds good.

    I also like to use the piano as an added instrument to the orchestra rather than bringing it out as a concerto.

    Maybe you could orchestrate the piano lines to the winds?

    M
    I was thinking about that actually, but they already have some good parts. I like the piano color too much to take it out. This is the 3th movement of my 2nd symphony, the 2nd movement has the harp as solo, so maybe I could give other solo instruments to the 1st and 4th movements, this could bring the complete symphony in balance.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  6. #6

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    I am working on a new piee for orchestra, a scherzo. Here is the intro of this movement:

    https://www.box.net/shared/i001om7t7m

    I am trying to get a good mix, I think it's pretty balanced by now, but others with fresh ears can maybe give me some good advice.

    André
    André, this sounds so nice with the dynamics added in -- much better than the "rough draft" you had me listen to! The different levels sound good, and also the balances. Personally, I don't hear anything wrong with how you've integrated the piano part since it's not intended to be a solo instrument. Muddiness in the basses is to be expected, especially since you seem to be applying a minimal amount of reverb. I think the best solution would be to use some EQ to reduce the prominence of their lower frequencies.

    By the way, I wanted to know if my dynamic values tables turned out to be at all useful for you. If so, did you just use my CC1 values, or did you figure out a way to use the CC7 values as well?

    Well done, sir!

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

  7. #7

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Johnson View Post
    André, this sounds so nice with the dynamics added in -- much better than the "rough draft" you had me listen to! The different levels sound good, and also the balances. Personally, I don't hear anything wrong with how you've integrated the piano part since it's not intended to be a solo instrument. Muddiness in the basses is to be expected, especially since you seem to be applying a minimal amount of reverb. I think the best solution would be to use some EQ to reduce the prominence of their lower frequencies.

    By the way, I wanted to know if my dynamic values tables turned out to be at all useful for you. If so, did you just use my CC1 values, or did you figure out a way to use the CC7 values as well?

    Well done, sir!

    Steve
    Thanks, Steve! I did use your table at the beginning, yes, but the balance came out completely off, I think it is because I am not able to use your volume numbers as well. I am using my own dynamic values like I had figured out earlier and adapted the volume sliders in the Aria players just as long I got a good balance for all the instruments. So now my numbers for dynamics are balanced in all instruments.
    You can listen to my music on: www.andrevanharen.com

  8. #8

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    It does get a little muddy, yes, I have to find a way to keep it clear on those moments.
    I believe reducing the Verb can help but also take a look at your score. You may have close intervals in lower registers. Within my own works I've had to "clean" the lines - maybe too many instruments playing the same lines. I've also had success pairing the Contra-bassoon or Bass Clarinet w/ Bass or Cello during lower passages for a crisper sound.

    However you proceed I know it will sound great. These are just some helpful ideas from my own experiences.

    M
    "...Wiktor's a Jekyll-Hyde personality..." - Lycos Music
    http://www.miserymadebeautiful.com

  9. #9

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Quote Originally Posted by AndreasvanHaren View Post
    Thanks, Steve! I did use your table at the beginning, yes, but the balance came out completely off, I think it is because I am not able to use your volume numbers as well. I am using my own dynamic values like I had figured out earlier and adapted the volume sliders in the Aria players just as long I got a good balance for all the instruments. So now my numbers for dynamics are balanced in all instruments.
    Okay, thanks for letting me know about that. Before I put my dynamic values tables out there, I'll put in a caveat that they won't work for Logic users. Unfortunately, automating the volume sliders in ARIA with CC7 is critical to getting good results using my method. Too bad -- I was really hoping there would be a way in Logic to do what we're able to do in Cubase and Sonar.

    I appreciate your willingness to give my dynamic values tables a try anyway, and I'm looking forward to hearing more of your 2nd symphony!

    Steve
    If you'd like to hear a couple of pieces I might actually finish someday, please visit my virtual concert hall.

  10. #10

    Re: Scherzo intro for orchestra

    Impressive beginning. Shades of Mendelssohn, but indeed it sounds like the beginning of a piano concerto.

    About the muddiness: I think that can be cured with EQ. In general, you should cut everything below the base frequencies of an instrument. That clears up some space in the spectrum for the basses.
    Theo

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